Kotor 2 Movie Style Overhaul

[Guest Sam Fisher]

I have to say, very impressed, but I think for example- 

I liked your old Telos better in some ways, I understand you're trying to modernise the game(s) but I think straying too far from the atmosphere of the original version is a mistake. I think for example, Halo 2 Anniversary is the perfect way to do such an overhaul. 

[Jorak Uln 458]

On 2/12/2020 at 7:40 PM, Sam Fisher said:

I have to say, very impressed, but I think for example- 

I liked your old Telos better in some ways, I understand you're trying to modernise the game(s) but I think straying too far from the atmosphere of the original version is a mistake.

Well, back then when did those 2 Telos iterations, the role model for Telos was Deus Ex Mankind Divided.  However, now, there's much more inspiration to draw on at the Star Wars Universe like BF2 or Jedi Fallen Order.

Also, since I wasn't totally convinced how it turned out, I decided to redo  the overall design again (for the last time i hope), to sth similar to this, which is the exact way I would imagine Citadel in 2020:

Quote

I liked your old Telos better in some ways, I understand you're trying to modernise the game(s) but I think straying too far from the atmosphere of the original version is a mistake. I think for example, Halo 2 Anniversary is the perfect way to do such an overhaul. 

I respectfully disagree. I've taken a look at Halo 2 Anniversary, and while its good, i feel it could/should have been taken further. 

For me, if you're talking about a "perfect" overhaul = Remake. E.g. something like Resident Evil 2 Remake - which is something totally out of reach for KotOR though. 

What we can do is to be inspired by Games like above and make textures from scratch which is much better in my opinion than just 1:1 using the vanilla designs & colors. (if you want to see how it looks first hand i could send you some files too)

-----------------

When talking about designs, I completely understand that going for non Star Wars games like Mankind Divided is not a good idea, things should feel authentic after all. That means for me you should feel your in the Star Wars universe on every corner of the game - as I said above, now i finally have enough resources to get the inspiration from to do that - a bit like the SWTOR overhaul back then but with a much greater pool of realistic designs to draw on.

 

[Guest Sam Fisher]

Yeah, that's totally fair- but as you say, it can only be taken so far without starting to replace models etc, but I will say, what I mean is less adhering to the exact designs present in KOTOR 1 & 2, and more the atmosphere- KOTOR 2 for example is very renowned for feeling grey, gritty, and looking that way in some respects. It's the most realistic take on the SW universe I've ever seen without losing the magic so to speak. Especially in KOTOR, with it's theming you feel all the planets are "broken"  in some way and it shows in their appearance. I took another look at your V1 and V2 Telos, and I only wish we could have both, as each looks phenominal. 

I'm particularly interested in how you'll handle a planet like Dxun, that's mainly a forest. 

If I must give you one piece of advice it's not to you use that Twi'lek graphic you created or anything like it, as nice as it is- it really takes you out of the immersion when you see a character model that's clearly too high poly to be actually anywhere within the world. I think in such a case, less is more. Oh! And please keep the fishes behind the Swoop manager, that was amazing. Also, for certain textures I remember you once said XNVIEW was required, but I've often found turning them upside down achieves the same affect. 

Good luck, your work is truly phenominal. I can't wait to see what both games look like in 2026 when you're done. Haha (: 

[Jorak Uln 458]

3 hours ago, Sam Fisher said:

Yeah, that's totally fair- but as you say, it can only be taken so far without starting to replace models etc, but I will say, what I mean is less adhering to the exact designs present in KOTOR 1 & 2, and more the atmosphere- KOTOR 2 for example is very renowned for feeling grey, gritty, and looking that way in some respects. It's the most realistic take on the SW universe I've ever seen without losing the magic so to speak. Especially in KOTOR, with it's theming you feel all the planets are "broken"  in some way and it shows in their appearance. I took another look at your V1 and V2 Telos, and I only wish we could have both, as each looks phenomenal. 

I'm particularly interested in how you'll handle a planet like Dxun, that's mainly a forest. 

If I must give you one piece of advice it's not to you use that Twi'lek graphic you created or anything like it, as nice as it is- it really takes you out of the immersion when you see a character model that's clearly too high poly to be actually anywhere within the world. I think in such a case, less is more. Oh! And please keep the fishes behind the Swoop manager, that was amazing. Also, for certain textures I remember you once said XNVIEW was required, but I've often found turning them upside down achieves the same affect. 

Good luck, your work is truly phenomenal. I can't wait to see what both games look like in 2026 when you're done. Haha 🙂

No no my friend. There's no way it will take that long to finish. In fact , the project has taken some serious progress on both games, K1 and 2, while I haven't posted screenshots yet.  The fish screen on Telos I'm afraid I've already exchanged for some in my opinion better suiting, more Star Wars like designs (still have the old file in case you guys insist on those):
(Keep in mind that I might add Godrays & Ray Tracing later)

I completely agree that KotOR shouldn't lose its magic, but modernizing some of its art design i feel should positively add to the immersion instead.  I don't know if you have played Jedi Fallen Order yet, but it's a blast in atmosphere and I immediately found myself wish for a KotOR with those graphics...

I don't want to spoil graphics yet, but here some custom designs that I use, - and there are much more not revealed yet -  tell me what you guys think: 

 

 

some pazaak cards:

Peragus (it is rich shadowed in game, but the contrast is more balanced in game:

 

 

[Sith Holocron 2,477]

On 2/22/2020 at 1:19 PM, Jorak Uln said:

 

Are those Dathomir runes from Fallen Order?

[Jorak Uln 458]

10 minutes ago, Sith Holocron said:

Are those Dathomir runes from Fallen Order?

Hey, you noticed ^^

And it was hell of work to mimic them...btw. i intend to use them for Dxun tomb and giving Korriban assets a very similar look to Darthomir as well.

and when you look at Peragus & Telos screenshots, you will notice that some tex are heavily  inspired by FO/ BF2 as well, btw. what do you think about the new look?

[Sith Holocron 2,477]

14 minutes ago, Jorak Uln said:

What do you think about the new look?

It's hard to tell just seeing the two texture textures by themselves.  I think I'd have to see them in the actual environments to get them in context.

[Jorak Uln 458]

2 minutes ago, Sith Holocron said:

It's hard to tell just seeing the two texture textures by themselves.  I think I'd have to see them in the actual environments to get them in context.

No i meant Telos & Peragus - those areas are almost done - the glyph textures are still ressources for unfinished areas like Dxun Temple & Korriban.

 

[Sith Holocron 2,477]

7 hours ago, Jorak Uln said:

No, I meant Telos & Peragus - those areas are almost done - the glyph textures are still resources for unfinished areas like Dxun Temple & Korriban.

 

I'm not crazy about the new energy beams as seen in the Peragus pictures as I liked the original color.  The dark look of Telos might take a bit getting used to.  It's well done though and it does seem to match the plot better than a more pristine mining colony.

[Jorak Uln 458]

6 hours ago, Sith Holocron said:

I'm not crazy about the new energy beams as seen in the Telos pictures as I liked the original color.  The dark look of Telos might take a bit getting used to.  It's well done though and it does seem to match the plot better than a more pristine mining colony.

I suppose you mean Peragus?

The beams are still a placeholder texture - somehow i cant find out which texture the flame-pillar inside the beams are. Since the scene (obviously Obsidian too) is inspired by this - in the end it should look a bit like the purple ones here: 

(if you insist on orange ones, it could be made optional:

The darkening of the screen comes from reshade which is optional - personally the increased contrast via HDR effect really suits the game but that is optional as well.     What i try to do is to get a bit more realistic look to the  game- with  peragus being a bit more gritty and e.g. Telos restoration zone buildings very weathered & rusty: 

[Sith Holocron 2,477]

3 minutes ago, Jorak Uln said:

I suppose you mean Peragus?

Yes, and I've corrected my last entry now. 

It looks like the Battlefront II screenshot has the colors a little off on those Naboo energy things.  I'm guessing you can get it closer than they can.  Here's a screenshot from the movie so you can compare.

Could the texture you're looking for possibly be "fx_tex_19.tpc"?  Just guessing here.

[Jorak Uln 458]

Nah, I checked most of the fx & PER files already. Seems I have to check files 1 by 1.

That Ep1 screenshot clearly has some 90's vibe which has something to it. Once I find out which tex is involved, I'll figure something out.

Mostly due to personal taste, I have to admit that vanilla kotor engine makes visuals looks too washed out in comparison to modern game engine; I tried diff. locations many times and I have to say that subtle use of reshade will help closing that gap by the use of advanced effects like SSAO & godrays; the darkening seen in screenshots don't do the actual in-game experience justice, since the bright areas remain bright. The colors pop more and the lighting feels more natural.

 

 

[Hunters Run 57]

The textures your looking for are PER_tube and PER_tubespec. Both have a blending additive on them. Also,  PER_tubespec has an envmaptexture CM_tube.

[Jorak Uln 458]

31 minutes ago, Hunters Run said:

The textures your looking for are PER_tube and PER_tubespec. Both have a blending additive on them. Also,  PER_tubespec has an envmaptexture CM_tube.

I appreciate your effort, but unfortunately its neither - when testing them, i assigned a fully transparent (empty) tex for both PER_tube & PER_tubespec; and this is what happened:

Tubespec txi got any Cubemap assigned (with "blending punchthrough" in txi the pillar becomes solid black):

when using "blending additive with CM_tube" always this animated "flame" appears:

So this flame pillar is the only obstacle in the way right now.

[Hunters Run 57]

That flame pillar is an emitter.  It does have a texture assigned to it (fx_smoke01), but the only way to modify it is in a 3d modeling program, I believe.  What are you trying to do to the flame pillar? 

[Jorak Uln 458]

1 hour ago, Hunters Run said:

That flame pillar is an emitter.  It does have a texture assigned to it (fx_smoke01), but the only way to modify it is in a 3d modeling program, I believe.  What are you trying to do to the flame pillar? 

Glad you found the texture - what im planning to do is to give it an energy core texture that runs straight upwards (unlike the vanilla smoke tex which constantly turns counterclockwise:

like the core of these energy beams here:

 

 

[Guest Sam Fisher]

No, can't say I'm too keen on your replacement for the fish personally, on a purely aesthetic level the way it's cut up reminds me too much of a broken texture personally. But otherwise I quite like everything else. I personally prefer the more classic look for the Pazaak cards, as I said before, anything that's clearly too high poly to exist in-game feels incredibly out of place. 

 

I do really like the new look for Peragus, but may I suggest perhaps,having some areas look more like the original appearance? 

 

As atmospheric as it is, I think you should also remember it was once a place where people worked, perhaps you could emulate emergency lighting? 

[Jorak Uln 458]

22 hours ago, Sam Fisher said:

No, can't say I'm too keen on your replacement for the fish personally, on a purely aesthetic level the way it's cut up reminds me too much of a broken texture personally. But otherwise I quite like everything else. I personally prefer the more classic look for the Pazaak cards, as I said before, anything that's clearly too high poly to exist in-game feels incredibly out of place. 

 

I do really like the new look for Peragus, but may I suggest perhaps,having some areas look more like the original appearance? 

 

As atmospheric as it is, I think you should also remember it was once a place where people worked, perhaps you could emulate emergency lighting? 

i probably should send you some files to check them out directly - dont judge them too early on the screenshots... the fish screen replacement is modeled after this:

(it also has that glow effect like shown here - but it changes intensity/color slightly when you turn the camera ingame). -> it feels very bright at times quite a bit like here:

https://www.deviantart.com/slinker-vintage/art/KOTOR-2-Concept-Art-20187177

Honestly, im a bit suprised you guys dont seem to like the new iterations much, compared to my previous work - at least ingame - ive never done any texture work before that comes close to this overhaul qualitywise.

In Vanilla Kotor, everything is in the same grey color - Peragus, Telos, Nar Shaddaa,  Ravager, Ebon Hawk and  even Dantooine. No differences at all. And vanilla Kotor uses the same textures like these about 20 times ingame: 

  

Dont tell me you guys want this: using the same textures over and over for every planet with only slight differences in Color/Material!  With the result that you dont know if you are currently at Dantooine or Nar Shaddaa or Peragus...

Remember, a 1:1 Overhaul would work fantastically with a modern game like Witcher 3 Reworked, but this is a 15 Year old game - so in absence of a proper Kotor 3 for me the best approach to handle this is to split the game in different areas and give each & every one of them a unique look but with major similarities between them like console design etc. and draw inspiration from todays ressources. 

During that process the vanilla art design at least for key areas should be remain untouched if possible.  

And honestly, Peragus just feels as it should, like an sparsely lit, abandoned mining station in the SW universe. In contrast to that, the main reactor chamber should feel more industrious, technical - in vanilla Kotor 2, its the same textures again...

Quote

As atmospheric as it is, I think you should also remember it was once a place where people worked, perhaps you could emulate emergency lighting? 

That sounds like some  idea, however, cant get Ray Tracing run properly atm. If thats fixed, i think true emergency lighting could be used very effectively particulary on the Harbinger, where i could darken the lightmaps/ screen to almost pitch black - then the emergency lights flash only for split second - and everything goes black again... that should really intensify the haunting atmosphere there.

(in contrast to this, i would do something like flickering lights at Peragus station, which indicates the low energy level but is not as radical though)

 

[Guest Sam Fisher]

Yes, I think that texture could totally work somewhere in KOTOR or KOTOR 2, but the wall you put it on is far too large, and therefore I believe it's quite ugly, it's in such a small place in BF for good reason, it's detailing and not a design that makes up the bulk of the wall- in contrast I think the fish gave the environment a ton of life. 

I think the questioning of your decisions is down to fear, all past attempts by any modder I can think of that said they were going to retexture and generally update the entire game never followed through. So, there's an aspect of comfortable familiarity to the shades of grey in KOTOR 2 in particular that reflects the state of the Galaxy, KOTOR 1 less so- but neither look entirely like the OG Trilogy or the Prequel Trilogy and that's a blessing, the look is unique. 

I think like Xuul (I believe) once said, the best kind of mod is one you don't notice but if it's ever removed you feel it's absence. 

I must stress I do like the majority of the work you've done, for example I think your reimagining of Tells is near perfect, but don't stress faithfulness to your sources (Fallen Order etc) to the point it's not aesthetically pleasing or doesn't suit the area, or even what the game can feasibly represent. A screenshot or model from the modern EA Battlefronts (Or anything like them) would feel highly out of place for example. 

When it comes to the environment, it's details and what's in it- use Chris Avellone's philosophy or MrBTongue's "Shandification" idea- think of where, when and how this object or texture got there when you find yourself questioning whether or not something is appropriate. 

 

[Jorak Uln 458]

12 hours ago, Sam Fisher said:

Yes, I think that texture could totally work somewhere in KOTOR or KOTOR 2, but the wall you put it on is far too large, and therefore I believe it's quite ugly, it's in such a small place in BF for good reason, it's detailing and not a design that makes up the bulk of the wall- in contrast I think the fish gave the environment a ton of life. 

here you can see the mimicked texture again  and its definitely not smaller than in my Kotor version: 

(you notice the orange texture does have different brightness in the first pic? The same effect you will have in my mod when moving the camera around )

12 hours ago, Sam Fisher said:

I think the questioning of your decisions is down to fear, all past attempts by any modder I can think of that said they were going to retexture and generally update the entire game never followed through. So, there's an aspect of comfortable familiarity to the shades of grey in KOTOR 2 in particular that reflects the state of the Galaxy, KOTOR 1 less so- but neither look entirely like the OG Trilogy or the Prequel Trilogy and that's a blessing, the look is unique. 

Yes, its a huge project and i cannot tell if it will be finished, but currently its making very good progress. I understand that you guys fear that our game wont look like Kotor anymore, but to be honest with you - what makes the Kotor series so special is the storywriting, the soundtrack. 

Things like the area models & the general texture layout/coloring wont change - the areas should be very well recognisable after all (absolutely not like Apeiron!).

However, i dont like to make sacrifices on quality - and i would, if i only use vanilla designs on textures like my previous TELOS Origins overhaul. 

12 hours ago, Sam Fisher said:

I think like Xuul (I believe) once said, the best kind of mod is one you don't notice but if it's ever removed you feel it's absence. 

I must stress I do like the majority of the work you've done, for example I think your reimagining of Tells is near perfect, but don't stress faithfulness to your sources (Fallen Order etc) to the point it's not aesthetically pleasing or doesn't suit the area, or even what the game can feasibly represent. A screenshot or model from the modern EA Battlefronts (Or anything like them) would feel highly out of place for example. 

 Nice phrase, but Xuul said that a long time ago, and time 's not standing still,  todays game visuals have evolved infinitely comparing to 2005. As i said before, Resident Evil 2 was a good game back then, but if you want to overhaul the visuals as good as possible and only creating a high res tex pack for it thats not enough! And you cant tell me that the new Remake is not a masterpiece.

We cant do this for Kotor, but what i try to do is to create sth. in between - to mimic the visuals of todays games as textures and you know what? It feels like a Star Wars game, more than the original one.

[Guest Sam Fisher]

Yeah, but like your Twi'lek animation/Pazaak card design thing looks out of place regardless, nothing else does. Just saying. 

Also considering the nature of KOTOR being so long ago, I think being inspired by Fallen Order etc is fine, but using stuff from it wholesale again, feels jarring.

And yes I understand the window effect, it just doesn't suit the specific place you put it in. 

[Malkior 476]

On 2/28/2020 at 10:21 PM, Jorak Uln said:

i probably should send you some files to check them out directly - dont judge them too early on the screenshots... the fish screen replacement is modeled after this:

(it also has that glow effect like shown here - but it changes intensity/color slightly when you turn the camera ingame). -> it feels very bright at times quite a bit like here:

https://www.deviantart.com/slinker-vintage/art/KOTOR-2-Concept-Art-20187177

Honestly, im a bit suprised you guys dont seem to like the new iterations much, compared to my previous work - at least ingame - ive never done any texture work before that comes close to this overhaul qualitywise.

In Vanilla Kotor, everything is in the same grey color - Peragus, Telos, Nar Shaddaa,  Ravager, Ebon Hawk and  even Dantooine. No differences at all. And vanilla Kotor uses the same textures like these about 20 times ingame: 

  

Dont tell me you guys want this: using the same textures over and over for every planet with only slight differences in Color/Material!  With the result that you dont know if you are currently at Dantooine or Nar Shaddaa or Peragus...

Remember, a 1:1 Overhaul would work fantastically with a modern game like Witcher 3 Reworked, but this is a 15 Year old game - so in absence of a proper Kotor 3 for me the best approach to handle this is to split the game in different areas and give each & every one of them a unique look but with major similarities between them like console design etc. and draw inspiration from todays ressources. 

During that process the vanilla art design at least for key areas should be remain untouched if possible.  

And honestly, Peragus just feels as it should, like an sparsely lit, abandoned mining station in the SW universe. In contrast to that, the main reactor chamber should feel more industrious, technical - in vanilla Kotor 2, its the same textures again...

That sounds like some  idea, however, cant get Ray Tracing run properly atm. If thats fixed, i think true emergency lighting could be used very effectively particulary on the Harbinger, where i could darken the lightmaps/ screen to almost pitch black - then the emergency lights flash only for split second - and everything goes black again... that should really intensify the haunting atmosphere there.

(in contrast to this, i would do something like flickering lights at Peragus station, which indicates the low energy level but is not as radical though)

 

For extra fun, those textures you're showing of Peragus were ported from Manaan, so the grey uninspired look is almost intentional, and personally, I'd be inclined to echo the feeling of the Yavin Space Station module from Kotor rather than that. Peragus is a dirty and potentially lethal place (but with great hazard pay) not unlike a Mining Platform we find in everyday life, and visuals in Vanilla Kotor2 hardly echo that.

 

For a bit of more trivia, the fans on the ceilings on Nar Shadaa were also ported from Manaan.

TSL is basically a hodgepodge of Kotor 1 textures, and again it's no surprise that it looks as bland as it does since it lacks actual artistic consistency.

[Guest Sam Fisher]

Useful as inspiration for the Tomb on Dxun perhaps?

And I apologize if I appear standoffish. I want wholeheartedly for nothing more than you finishing this project for both video games, giving them a proper modern update as you say. 

[Guest Sam Fisher]

Also for a professional look, retain something similar to the visuals we see in the FMVs in those areas, for example the Telos hangar. 

[Jorak Uln 458]

  

On 3/4/2020 at 11:18 PM, Sam Fisher said:

Also for a professional look, retain something similar to the visuals we see in the FMVs in those areas, for example the Telos hangar. 

If you want the KotOR games to look aesthetically pleasing, i think its not a good idea to mimic the "comic" look of the clone wars. As I said - the movies & newer games provide the only visually realistic references to the SW Universe and that's also the goal of this mod.  

Btw, it's true what Malkior said, "TSL is basically a hodgepodge of KotOR 1 textures".  To understand my point, I only can encourage you to try out doing some (easy) textures for Citadel Station and then look how overused they are, then you will soon come to the conclusion that the K2 art design is everything else but thoughtfully chosen by Obsidian.