TSL (Vanilla) In-Game Mysteries

[Sith Holocron 2,403]

Have you noticed any thing that was unexplained in TSL - either through dialogue or cutscene?

This thread is solely to discuss "unresolved mysteries" in the vanilla version of TSL.

What this is thread is NOT for: This thread is not for discussing bugs or plot introduced by TSLRCM, or any other mod.

I'll start off the list with a couple and if anyone else would like to add something, please do so. Please explain in detail how it's an unresolved mystery.

1) Bao-Dur unexplained disappearance from the end-game: We all know that his remote is present on Malachor V and he recorded final instructions for him. We never did find out whether he's dead or alive. If he's dead, how did he die and why? If he's alive, where is he and why did he go?

2) Why did the Exile return to known space?: Discussed in depth in this thread.

[Guest HaVoKeR]

What about how brianna and kreia went to telos without the Ebon Hawk? It was a ship? where did they left it? or was it Force Teleport? lol =p

 

& i'm not sure if this fits here, but this telos stuff just remembered me: why the exile doesn't gain ANY LS/DS points in the rebuild enclave/atris battle parts (maybe i forgot another important part, anyone can help me remember)?? I mean, its fells like a huge lack of sense there, its contraditory to say some stuff like "shut up, now i will kill you, Atris" and NO, i mean NO DS points for you Sir, while in the entire playthrough some meaningless sh1t you say makes you gain lots of DS or LS points.

I'm pretty sure its because obsidian "forgot" to do it because they had few time before the release.

 

It also remind me of another LS/DS strange stuff going; when kreia's hand get cut off, the Exile feel pain, atton says some stuff and depending on your "luck" (for e.g. if you say YEAH you get LS but if you say only YES you don't) you get LS points or nothing... anyone noticed what lightside attitude the exile had there?

Theres no reason in that LS point. Thats all i can remember for now, but i'm pretty sure there are other moments in the game that LS or DS gaining are questionable.

 

Maybe a topic about this should be created? Also, shall i remind everyone that this stuff i said here, fits both for vanilla and RCM versions of the game.

[Guest Lex]

Haven't played the game in a long time, but I don't remember HK-47's story between KotOR and TSL being explained very well, if at all. It was just "I was shot, dismantled and it seems my something core was shot repeatedly at close range. How crude!".

[Pazaak 12]

I could ramble on for hours, honestly. So, yeah, there's quite a few in the vanilla. Also, before I start, these are what I noticed during my first playthrough many years ago when the game was first released, and I have since noticed things that made some of them make sense. Otherwise, these are what I considered plot holes.

 

I'll be honest, when I first got to Malachor V, I was confused as all hell. Malachor was RARELY talked about in my game, just that it was the final site for the war, and that the Exile was there, and that's where he/she lost his/her connection to the force.

 

Now, actually enter Malachor. You're tossed in the middle, first thing I asked, where are my party members? They're gone, I guess. The cutscene beforehand showed they were with me, but I guess they left. Then Mira shows up, oh! Party members ARE here! Nice! Oh wait, no, she just appeared on the planet, flew miles from the Hawk when it crashed, fought Hanharr, then what, stayed and died on Malachor when it blew up? Okay.

 

Then I'm playing as remote, for no reason, and I'm like HUH!? Bao-Dur is talking about some thing called the Mass Shadow Generator, and I had NEVER heard of that before. He's asking me to prime it, I say, okay, whatever. So I do, then G0-T0 shows up, reveals *gasp*, that he's a VILLAIN of some sorts. Preaches a little, then kills remote. Oh good, unresloved, a bad guy won.

 

Then I actually go through the academy. There's no dialogue, no cutscenes, I just sort of go there. To find Kreia, I know, but still, it's odd. So I reach there, fight Sion, fight Kreia. Sion mumbles, Kreia mumbles, the Hawk appears, unscathed after falling into a massive canyon, probably exploding being destroyed in the process. I get on, who's flying it? I don't know. I thought the party didn't come with me. Oh well, I get on, we fly off, into the nothingness, the end.

 

Bao-Dur knows me. He tells me we were in the war together. Okay, I say, fair enough. Then he never talks to me again, never explains anything, never becomes a jedi, and just disappears from the story.

 

Mandalore acts like he's never been on the Hawk before, other than that, he's alright.

 

For the longest time, during my first playthrough, I didn't even think that Nihilus/Sion/Traya KNEW one another. I never got Kreia's influence high enough to see the scene about her fall, so as far as I was concerned, they were just a buncha Sith Lords running around. It's not as if Sion and Nihilus ever have any interaction, or even similar goals beyond killing all the jedi, so how would you ever know they were working together if you NEVER saw the scene? Visas acts like she doesn't know Sion, or at least never talks about it. You'd think if she was Nihilus' servant she'd bump into Sion around the Ravager now and then.

 

Also, this is more of a story to gameplay gripe, but I always thought Visas built up Nihilus a little TOO much. I mean, the guy can destroy ENTIRE PLANETS, he's supposed to be some sorta god or something, right? Wrong. You get to the Ravager, and kill him by sneezing on him. The end. Okay. The big bad ass kahuna of the Sith apparently is just a pushover.

 

Also, I always play as a male exile, so I don't really know a lot about Mical or anything, but he's a Republic spy, right? They never really DO anything about that, do they? Doesn't someone on the ship find out? Kreia, or Atton or someone? I don't remember. Then they just sorta let it slide.

 

How about that scene with HK and T3? T3 is hiding something on the navicomputer, something about where they've been. Why would he want to hide that? It's not like it could lead anyone to Revan, he didn't take the Hawk with him into dark space. What would it show? That it once belonged to Davik? Where Revan traveled in Kotor? That it once belonged to that one fool on Nar Shadaa? Who cares? What would HK gain by seeing this, his memory back? Once again, who CARES? What bad could come from that?

 

Also, Mandalore/HK/T3 don't seem to know one another. I know this was tweaked a little in TSLRCM, but in vanilla, it's like, whatever. I don't know, I know HK lost his memory, and maybe Mandalore can't discern one droid from another, but it's still odd.

 

Also, as far as I know, Echani is first introduced in Kotor 2. Brianna and the sisters are Echani, and Atton has had Echani training. But what IS an Echani, exactly? Is it a race? A belief? I don't really remember them ever saying what the hell one was, I just remember Brianna saying she was one, that she was trained in the style, and that Atton was trained too.

 

I also thought it was really lazy when I found Vash dead. I knew that must've been cut content before I even KNEW it actually was. Why just kill off a master? Time constraints? I guess so. Also, no need to knock Sion or anything, but I don't think he could've killed Vash that easily.

 

Also, how did Sion and Nihilus die? They're dead, RIGHT? Kreia says they are, or at least not living in the same way that normal people are. They're basically dead, and are keeping themselves alive through the dark side. Okay. How did that happen? When did they die? Obviously sometime BEFORE the Sith Triumviate, because they were already dead then. I don't know, it was weird to me.

 

Also, the random Sith guys who were on Dxun, the ones trying to fiddle with Onderon? Whose side were they on? This might just be me having a bad memory, or something, but on my first playthrough, I didn't know who the hell these guys were. Are they with Nihilus and Sion? Kreia says she's helping them on Onderon when she talks to Tobin. Okay, are they with HER? Probably not. Because Tobin is an ally to Nihilus, and Nihilus is sure no ally to Kreia. So why is Kreia helping them? They're Nihilus' guys, right? I don't get it.

 

'Nother thing, though once again, this might just be bad memory on my part. All the jedi went to Katarr, right? They all were killed by Nihilus, right? What about the council? What about Kavar, Zez, Vrook, Atris and Vash? They didn't die. I don't remember them ever saying why they weren't there, I don't know. It seemed odd ANY jedi should still be alive, it was off to me.

 

Honestly, I could go on for hours, as I said. My first playthrough of TSL on the Xbox when it came out years ago was a fun one, but an odd one. Keep in mind a lot of my gripes are my personal experiences with the game, my FIRST playthrough of the vanilla version, along with stuff that didn't make sense to me. I'm sure a lot of these things are explained, I just missed them, or maybe they WERE cut. Just saying, these were some of my gripes during my first playhthrough, when at times, I had NO idea what was going on. I understand a lot of these much better now, from reading about them, to actually SEEING them, so this is really what I experienced on my initial playthrough.

[ancient46 12]

How Does Visas get to Dantooine?

When HK wakes up after being zapped by T3 why doesn't HK retaliate?

Why are we too late in Freedon Nadd's tomb? What did the Sith find and since they are dead why does it matter? They weren't carrying much.

Why don't Handmaiden's sisters find out Atris lied to them about her?

Why is it so easy for Visas to get aboard the Hawk?

Why is Atton on Peragus?

How do the companions get off Malachor V to continue the lives Kreia described?

Does Kreia "Force Teleport" Handmaiden to Telos and herself to Trayus Academy?

[Hassat Hunter 571]

When HK wakes up after being zapped by T3 why doesn't HK retaliate?

Because T3 modified him, as is very obvious if you ask HK about the Navicomputer on the Hawk.

Why are we too late in Freedon Nadd's tomb? What did the Sith find and since they are dead why does it matter? They weren't carrying much.

The beast went through the Force Field. They controlled the beasts. Wasn't it obvious? :S

Why is Atton on Peragus?

Most probably he's the pilot hired to take the Exile off the station by Coorta.

[jjo 2]

Because T3 modified him, as is very obvious if you ask HK about the Navicomputer on the Hawk.

 

Oh haha, okay. I thought T3 scared HK-47 into submission somehow and HK was just pretending not to know anything about the navicomputer. But it makes more sense that T3 modified him.

 

As for plotholes, the reason why the Exile returned from known space bothered me as well. I know Atris leaked out information of her return to the Sith, but that doesn't explain why the Exile returned. She was somehow lured back by Atris? How? What would possibly lure the Exile back?

 

And as mentioned above, how are Kreia and Brianna able to leave Dantooine without the Ebon Hawk?

 

This isn't really a plothole, but it kind of bothered me how the Exile was frequently clueless. But I guess super powerful =/= most astute.

[Mandalore 61]

If Nihilus hasn't entered known space in a while, how did Visas know where to find the Exile and be able to get there in an instant? And exactly how did she get there, since there's no evidence of any transport vessel that took her all the way over to some backwater planet to chase after some Jedi?

[Guest bendarby24]

she senst him through the force she said this in the game and she said it is because off het speaces

[Mandalore 61]

Good point. But how did she actually get there? That's what I'm confused about...

[Guest bendarby24]

Use your brain to make it up or something because it is on the Ebon Hawk .....

You're not going to see a ship crashed in to it lol or in the middle of battle she go's i got hire by train if you wanted to now why you knock her out lol

[Mandalore 61]

True. Although inventing it is never as fulfilling as finding out...

[VarsityPuppet 1,084]

Good point. But how did she actually get there? That's what I'm confused about...

 

It's Star Wars. There's always some random ship waiting to transport everyone from one planet to another, no questions asked. Plus, for Visas I think it adds more to the 'assassin' aspect of her. She could have landed in a different sector of the planet and secretly made her way aboard the Ebon Hawk. What do you want a ship to land right next to the Ebon Hawk to show that she's arrived?

 

Kreia and Handmaiden, we have to assume there was a ship involved somewhere. They must have had some sort of transport to run around and get supplies - maybe when the Handmaiden informed Atris that Kreia was a sith, a transport was sent. Maybe they took a ship from the Dantooine bay? idk

[Guest bendarby24]

It's Star Wars. There's always some random ship waiting to transport everyone from one planet to another, no questions asked. Plus, for Visas I think it adds more to the 'assassin' aspect of her. She could have landed in a different sector of the planet and secretly made her way aboard the Ebon Hawk. What do you want a ship to land right next to the Ebon Hawk to show that she's arrived?

 

Kreia and Handmaiden, we have to assume there was a ship involved somewhere. They must have had some sort of transport to run around and get supplies - maybe when the Handmaiden informed Atris that Kreia was a sith, a transport was sent. Maybe they took a ship from the Dantooine bay? idk

travaling to planet to planet is like get a train in star wars

[Mandalore 61]

True...

[ivak 0]

Good point. But how did she actually get there? That's what I'm confused about...

Judging from the cutscene when the Sith forces attack Telos, Nihilus had a whole armada escorting the Ravager. Probably she commandeered one of these ships.

[Mandalore 61]

Oh yeah. I should really think before complaining, shouldn't I...

[VarsityPuppet 1,084]

Oh yeah. I should really think before complaining, shouldn't I...

 

Naw, it's cool. Just trying to explain how some of these things could be justified. There are some big gaping plot holes, but there are some that just aren't really important in the aspect of the game.

 

Sort of like where Atton came from. True, it's never explained, but is that bit of information really important past Peragus?

[jjo 2]

Hmm. I can't remember if this is exclusive to the restored content or not, but the fact that HK-47 states he is built after the Mandalorian Wars bothers me. I remember in KOTOR that his final story (unlocked after repairing his memory core several times) pertained to him being sent into space to assassinate Mandalore who reprogrammed HK. But if he was constructed after the Mandalorian Wars, there wouldn't have been a Mandalore to assassinate.

 

Ah,

a video.

So yeah. That doesn't add up to me.

[Guest staticjoe66]

A couple things I've always wondered:

 

1) How does Lt Grenn know you're a Jedi? Who told him? The HK who told Peragus you're a Jedi you scrap just before leaving there...so who told Grenn...?? When you are first arrested on Telos it's for Peragus exploding then after you're attacked by the bogus Batu Rem Grenn somehow knows you're a Jedi? And this is before the TSF completes its investigation plus at this time you haven't yet met Atris so she doesn't know you're back in known space so she couldn't have ratted you out and it's not like KOTOR I in which Bastilla adds a mind-erased Revan to the passenger manifest--which leads me to...

 

2)You're simply on-board the Harbinger and headed for Telos to supposedly aid in the restoration effort--in typical SW fashion, the ship gets hijacked and attacked by the Sith...and...T3 and the Ebon Hawk just happen to be conveniently accessible...?? Oh kay...

 

3) As has already been mentioned, Mandalore not remembering the Ebon Hawk and/or T3 seems strange to me especially since it's the very ship he escaped the destruction of Taris on...

 

4) Right after telling you coincidence was on her side when she found you on the Harbinger, Kreia then says coincidences are rare...which is it...??

[Pazaak 12]

Oh yeah. I should really think before complaining, shouldn't I...

 

You should see my post for this. Although, my post was first impression of the game like I said, so a lot of my gripes have been answered by now.

[ivak 0]

2)You're simply on-board the Harbinger and headed for Telos to supposedly aid in the restoration effort--in typical SW fashion, the ship gets hijacked and attacked by the Sith...and...T3 and the Ebon Hawk just happen to be conveniently accessible...?? Oh kay...

IIRC, the Ebon Hawk was the vector of the Sith attack against the Harbinger. The cruiser received a distress signal which claimed that the freighter was attacked by a Sith warship. When the Republic crew picked up the Ebon Hawk, they found no one alive on board, only T3-M4 and the body of a seemingly dead Darth Sion.

 

3) As has already been mentioned, Mandalore not remembering the Ebon Hawk and/or T3 seems strange to me especially since it's the very ship he escaped the destruction of Taris on...

Do you still remember every toaster you have ever used? As for the ship, i can't recall him saying that he didn't remember it.

[VarsityPuppet 1,084]

Do you still remember every toaster you have ever used? As for the ship, i can't recall him saying that he didn't remember it.

 

In fact, there is content restored in TSLRCM that hints at that he remembers it.

[Guest Lex]

Do you still remember every toaster you have ever used? As for the ship, i can't recall him saying that he didn't remember it.

Canderous may not remember some random ship in which he escaped the destruction of some random planet, but not remember the ship in which he traveled with Revan, the uber-master-genius who defeated his people and whose man he had sworn to be? Oh wait, they are the same ship. =P

 

But anyway, as VP said, there's restored content about it.

[Guest staticjoe66]

Could you possibly be referring to the "nice ship" line and dialogue tree...?? If so, I'm not sure I would agree--depending on when you talk to him you may not yet have helped him gather the clans on Dantooine and Nar Shaddaa, it's only after you help gather the clans he tells you about Revan making no further mention at all regarding the Hawk

 

 

 

In fact, there is content restored in TSLRCM that hints at that he remembers it.