Kaevee Dialog Rewrite?

[GamerX51 11]

Are there any plans to redo the Kaevee Dialog at any point? It is in desperate need of a rewrite for grammar and proper sentence structure. I'm not trying to put down the team or the voice actor or anything - it was quite a remarkable achievment to create and insert a completely new scripted conversation into a game that never got any official modding tools - but the way it is written now is terribly awkward and it doesn't look or sound right in english.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

All the VO is based on a script OE wrote, so I doubt you mean that with "grammar and proper sentence structure" right?

I'll see if I can do anything, but no promises. After all, there really aren't much lines to work with.

[GamerX51 11]

All the VO is based on a script OE wrote, so I doubt you mean that with "grammar and proper sentence structure" right?

I'll see if I can do anything, but no promises. After all, there really aren't much lines to work with.

 

 

 

 

Hmm... if that's what OE wrote, then the Kaevee content must have been cut from the game fairly early on in development, before thier QA people got to take a look at it. Well, thanks for at least looking into it, Hassat Hunter.

[ttlan 18]

Hi GamerX51

 

Welcome.

 

It is kind to want to improve things like the syntax of some sentences, but care must be taken about several things simultaneous.

 

Indeed, as HH says, there are the VO, which block a lot of initiatives.

 

But as regards Kaevee, that is not VO that block the reformulation of those sentences. these are the character traits of the personage, perfectly profiled by Obsidian, and I defend furiously and passionately.

 

Why?

 

In 3956 BBY, Darth Malak understood that the "New Revan" is on his trail and he destroyed all the star maps that Revan had discovered some years earlier (they may drive his former master, again, to the Star Forge, his new headquarters).

 

With the Sith commander Saul Karath, former supervisor of the Republic Admiral Carth Onasi (a man Carth admired, who betrayed and caused the death of the wife of Onasi, two years earlier), Malak devastates Dantooine as he devastated Telos, and destroyed the Jedi enclave in a heavy planetary bombardment.

 

He aimed, in particular, "strange ruins", near the Jedi Enclave. It was ruins of a Rakata temple. They contain a fragment of the star map leading to the Star Forge.

 

All Jedi where tortured and killed, many of them high-ranking, and much of the population.

 

The Sith will occupy this planet some time, looting, killing and torturing and then will abandon Dantooine that will begin to rebuild.

 

The Exiled arrived on Dantooine 5 years later, in 3951 BBY, and discovered, in the Enclave, a yong padawan, Kaevee, recluse, who survived alone for five years.

 

She is 17 when she is discovered by the Exile (this information is provided by Obsidian in the files of K2).

 

So, since the age of 12, she is totally abandoned to herself.

 

She only has, as interlocutor, a Sith holocron and lots of laïgrecks! She has no chance to talk to anyone. She has probably declined in speaking and spoke more like a kid a little rough, 7 to 9, (but she is an endearing character).

 

So not! nobody touches the Kaevee language.

 

And more generally, Kotor 2 is almost exclusively contained in its texts. Never lose sight that Obsidian was wonderfully subtle in the language and in its writing and, generally, no comma is to be moved.

 

TTLan

[Working Class Hero 12]

I am totally in agreement with the OP.

 

Kaevee is by far my least favorite thing in rcm...I don't care who wrote the dialog, it just plain sucks and the voice actor is worse.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

The Kaevee dialog could use a bit of refining, I think. Also, much thanks to the original voice actress to do her lines, but I think someone whose voice fits the face more closely would... well, it would be a lot better.

[GamerX51 11]

So, since the age of 12, she is totally abandoned to herself. She only has, as interlocutor, a Sith holocron and lots of laïgrecks! She has no chance to talk to anyone. She has probably declined in speaking and spoke more like a kid a little rough, 7 to 9,

 

I'm sorry, but that's not really an excuse for the poor quality of the dialogue in that scene. My mother was a licensed pediatrician for many years who specialized in caring for mentally and emotionally damaged children, and even she cringed when I let her listen to that convo in game. She told me that even the slowest children have already fully developed their langauge and critical thinking skills by the age of eight, and that nine years wasn't anywhere near enough time for those skills to deteriorate to the degree that Kaevee displayed in that convo, which is probably one of the reasons why OE cut it from the game in the first place. So unless you're arguing that Kaevee is retarded, your rationale doesn't really hold water.

 

I'm not trying to insult you or make enemies here, I'm just saying that that scene needs major improvements to be considered anywhere near professional quality.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I'm sorry, but that's not really an excuse for the poor quality of the dialogue in that scene. My mother was a licensed pediatrician for many years who specialized in caring for mentally and emotionally damaged children, and even she cringed when I let her listen to that convo in game. She told me that even the slowest children have already fully developed their langauge and critical thinking skills by the age of eight, and that nine years wasn't anywhere near enough time for those skills to deteriorate to the degree that Kaevee displayed in that convo, which is probably one of the reasons why OE cut it from the game in the first place. So unless you're arguing that Kaevee is retarded, your rationale doesn't really hold water.

 

I don't think the issue is so much with the lines themselves, but with the interpretation of the voice actress herself.

 

"All dead - all of them. Blown apart by the Sith, tortured by the Sith, just dead by the Sith. Only Kaevee is left. Just me."

 

Now from reading this particular line, each one of us would probably read it differently, and certainly with a different internal voice. We'd accent different words for sure and that's just a normal intricacy of our speaking.

[GamerX51 11]

I don't think the issue is so much with the lines themselves, but with the interpretation of the voice actress herself.

 

That may be, but it doesn't change the fact that those lines are just not well written, and certainly not well delivered. Again, I'm not trying to put down the voice actress or the person who wrote those lines, but that convo seriously detracted from my overall enjoyment of the enclave sublevel, and I'm sure there are others on this forum who feel the same.

 

If it really isn't possible to redo the scene, then I would argue for the complete removal of the Kaevee content. Just a suggestion.

[ttlan 18]

Well...

 

At 12, she sees in front of her eyes, all of her teachers being burned alive, tortured, shredded ... and all her companions and all her friends. The Enclave is no more than rubbles and corpses. In addition, the Siths have stayed a few months on Dantooine, continuing to massacre the population.

 

The trauma of Kaevee, at 12, is unimaginable, something terrible, something that the psyche of a child under 12 can not assimilate or canalize. Her mental constructs are blocked. Her language is blocked. All of her cues disappeared.

 

At 12, and for 5 years, she will become a wild child that hide. Let's imagine... Can we imagine?...

 

I speak of that with even more respect for the work of Obsidian that I did the translation into French of the Kaevee dialog options and I struggled with all her words.

 

I've forgot to talk about the comments, written by Obsidian, to the attention of the actors (Voice-Acting - Kaevee Character):

 

Obsidian wrote:

 

{She is a tormenting 17 year old that is seriously messed up - the last sentence sounds like she's talking herself into this action}

 

{She's mourning their loss and the PC has a chance to interject}

 

{She seems a bit teary with her reply}

 

{She seems lost}

 

{A certain deadly coldness to her tone}

 

{she seems confused how he did this}

 

{Something too painful to talk about}

 

{She sounds miserably lost}

 

When they were g-gone{she was about to say were killed}

 

{Way too intense and on edge during this - she's built a crazy morale framework to justify her actions}

 

{She sounds slightly horrified}...

 

This is Kaevee's journal. Most of it is incoherent and she seems to have been deeply troubled by ghosts of her past.

 

I think the work of actor for the voice of Kaevee, has not been easy at all.

[GamerX51 11]

I've forgot to talk about the comments, written by Obsidian, to the attention of the actors (Voice-Acting - Kaevee Character):

 

quoted comments cut out

 

I think the work of actor for the voice of Kaevee, has not been easy at all.

 

Kaevee's mental state has no bearing on the quality of the dialog in this scene. There are ways to accurately convey all of those points OE quoted in the dialog comments without totally butchering the english language in the process. Look.... I'm not asking for professional quality voice work and neither is anyone else, just consistency with the rest of the games' dialog. As it stands now, the Kaevee convo is not in any way consistent. This needs to change.

[Sith Holocron 2,452]

She only has, as interlocutor, a Sith Holocron and lots of laigreks! She has no chance to talk to anyone.

 

I get blamed for everything! LOL

[Pazaak 12]

Am I the only one who thought the VA for her wasn't THAT bad? I don't know, I must be really forgiving I guess.

 

I was just happy to see the scene actually THERE, I must not have noticed if the VA was of poor quality or not.

[Sith Holocron 2,452]

The pronunciation of some of the words was off . . .

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I am fine with it myself. Then again, it was such a relief to hear this after being subjected to the horror that was in TSLRP.

 

You can probably forget getting new VO'ed lines though...

[Guest DragonEmperor]

I honestly did not enjoy that particular encounter myself. I don't know what other people may think, but, even with no voice actor, I would probably enjoy the scene without the voices. I cringed as I heard those lines the first time. While the dialogue could use some work, it was the voice that took away some of the enjoyment.

 

Its not that the voice actor was bad. I just never enjoyed the interpretation. All that being said, I know that I probably couldn't do any better, but it was just my opinion as I heard those lines.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

It's not difficult to make a mod to make said convo voice-less, if you want to.

 

Just don't exepct it in vanilla TSLRCM.

[Working Class Hero 12]

Just make her an optional add-on to the full mod.

[ttlan 18]

Yes ... Well ... The French version of the Voice-Acting does not exist for the Kaevee's character so we also "enjoy" the English voice. We can not say that her voice is very pleasant but, otherwise, she is the only voice of Kotor 2 that has real tones, everything else being a bit flat, dull and monotonous with a diction rhythm quite identical for each human (or quite human) character (at least in the French version).

[Guest Bob Ta'aar]

vanilla TSLRCM

oO

 

 

Personally I really liked the dialogue and it's voice-interpretation.

Firstly, no matter how unrealistic for a real-world 17-year-old it would be, to produce such a dialogue, we're talking Star Wars with the Dark Side of the Force here! This can do pretty bad things to a human mind.

Secondly, we're talking of a scene, where you meet a mentally damaged teenager in a monster-infected, half caved-in dungeon! This is not a scene that you should find enjoyable or beautiful or anything. More a scene that should inflict horror, sadness, ect. .

 

I always found this one of the best restored scenes (mostly for it's size and work put into).

If there wouldn't be that damn party-members cap, I'd actually suggest making Kaevee recruitable!

[ttlan 18]

 

If there wouldn't be that damn party-members cap, I'd actually suggest making Kaevee recruitable!

 

I wrote in my pages, that we could at least have it boarding the Ebon Hawk. She could have been feeding, bathing, dressing and rebuild her mental health before being released into the wild (or stay in the Ebon Hawk) a bit like the little girl thief in Kotor 1.

[Mandalore 61]

Don't forget that she was in Jedi training at the time, and someone who was subjected to being near a total annihilation of all life at that time would've suffered tremendous damage to their mind through the shock sent through the Force. If you look at what such acts did to the Exile, you can imagine what they would do to a mere Padawan.

Not that I'm taking sides here...

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Just make her an optional add-on to the full mod.

Can't do. Then we pretty much need to rework all of Dantooine, since she's all over it...

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

You know guys, if you didn't enjoy the Voice overs offered by TSLRCM for Kaevee, there's nothing stopping anyone from:

 

- Rewriting Kaevee's dialog

- Revoicing Kaevee

 

Being that you would probably just be rewording some dialog entries and making some mp3s, it should be possible to swap out either the old dialog/mp3s with the new ones and have a new and improved Kaevee.

 

I just listened to a few of the lines again and I personally think the voice doesn't really match up with the character. (That and there are a few times where the fluctuations in tone and volume cause clipping and distortion in the audio).

[Zlyden 0]

I’m think there is no need to rewrite, revoice or delete Kaevee. This character is well thought out, and I think she’s earned the right to life in TSLRCM. And no matter that someone doesn’t like her.

About the voice: when I first time heard it, I thought that now Kaevee will cry. And it is not surprising, considering that I had just killed her pets! After that her voice become a little stronger—she’s clearly beginning to calm down. It’s no wonder she has such a voice—just recall a voice of crying children. So I think that next time we met her, her voice will be better.

If there wouldn’t be that damn party-members cap, I’d actually suggest making Kaevee recruitable!

I wrote in my pages, that we could at least have it boarding the Ebon Hawk. She could have been feeding, bathing, dressing and rebuild her mental health before being released into the wild (or stay in the Ebon Hawk) a bit like the little girl thief in Kotor 1.

It would be nice if we could recruit her instead of Disciple (if we playing as male character, of cource).