Star Wars Episode VII Discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

[Doctor Evil 51]

Using an article might be better considering that youtube vid is extremely biased, keep trying on that whole "it totally ripped of ANH whine whine whine!", because he doesn't have to justify himself to anyone.

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-responds-to-the-force-awakens-a-new-hope-comparisons/

 

this one works too --> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jj-abrams-criticism-star-wars-the-force-awakens-a-new-hope-rip-off-a6804546.html

[Haveayap 127]

Using an article might be better considering that youtube vid is extremely biased, keep trying on that whole "it totally ripped of ANH whine whine whine!", because he doesn't have to justify himself to anyone.

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-responds-to-the-force-awakens-a-new-hope-comparisons/

did you not read the article in which he was interviewed lol... He said it himself, its in the fine print. It doesnt matter about that dudes opinion because JJ says it himself

[Doctor Evil 51]

did not read the article in which he was interviewed lol... He said it himself, its in the fine print. It doesnt matter about that dudes opinion because JJ says so himself

 

And this is why I laugh at you dissenters, because you don't read any evidence from the other side rather than the stuff you bring up and think you're correct, completely ignoring everything else. Have you even thought about that maybe the guy misquoted JJ abrams and only used a part of it? It's quite easy to do that in a youtube video. Look at both sides of the coin before jumping to a conclusion.

[Haveayap 127]

And this is why I laugh at you dissenters, because you don't read any evidence from the other side rather than the stuff you bring up. Have you even thought about that maybe the guy misquoted JJ abrams and only used a part of it? Look at both sides of the coin before jumping to a conclusion

or maybe you are backtracking lol because even the director admits his film was ANH rip off... Read the whole article on screen, its their to view

[Doctor Evil 51]

or maybe you are backtracking lol because even the director admits his film was ANH rip off... Read the whole article on screen, its their to view

 

Lol I'm backtracking? I watched the video on screen maybe you should read the articles I put up. Thanks for proving me right on that you don't actually read.

 

This is what he says, rather than "Admitting that he ripped off ANH" as you say he did

 

“I can understand that someone might say, ‘Oh, it’s a complete rip-off!’ ” he says, adding, “What was important for me was introducing brand new characters using relationships that were embracing the history that we know to tell a story that is new — to go backwards to go forwards.”

 

He's conceding the opposite point of view, giving the other side "I can see what you mean, but this is what it really is", not outright saying "oh you're totally right I ripped off ANH".

 

 

“The story of history repeating itself was - I believe - an obvious and intentional thing, and the structure of meeting a character who comes from a nowhere desert and discovers that she has a power within her, where the bad guys have a weapon that is destructive but that ends up being destroyed - those simple tenets are by far the least important aspects of this movie, and they provide bones that were well-proven long before they were used in Star Wars.”

 

This is something I believe the movies are playing on, and might make a part as to why Luke left, because history keeps repeating itself, ALA the Ring Theory, but let's immediately hate on the movie because it has similarities to A New Hope.

 

Don't see him saying in ANY of these quotes that he ripped off A new hope, seems to me you didn't even read that article on the screen as you claim you did.

 

Also, read that 40 plot points article i posted

[Kate The Bionic Uterus 12]

So anyone who likes this movie has a lower standard of entertainment than yours? It's not just a difference of opinion?

 

obvious flame bait moved to woft file, no wonder the troll liked this comment ^^

 

that there are more sophisticated movies than SW TFA 

 

Thank you. Specificly there are more sophisticated science fiction movies that are worth MY time. And my time has nothing to do with anybody else. Besides the classics, I thought Ex Machina was amazing.

 

SW TFA is very comparable to Mad Max Fury Road in that they were both basically remakes of previous titles. Fury Road was a superior movie imo and I am please to note that since my post here I have learned that I am far from alone. In almost every SW forum there is a significant number of people who disliked where the story has gone.

 

As a movie sw tfa was a good action flick at best. There is no question it was exciting. Story wise it is pathetic. The fact that the new Darth Vader is Han and Leia's son just is too stupid to bear.  You would never find an American Vietnam veteran's son joining the communists in North Vietnam 25 years later and attacking the USA or children of holocaust survivors becoming nazis and killing jews. It doesn't make a difference how much they dislike their fathers this would just never happen. It is beyond reason! The story just falls apart right there.

 

I don't really blame the director. I thought the movie was well directed. I blame the script. It was a poor concept, unoriginal and lacked vision. In the end it just doesn't make any sense to me. This is why my life time love affair with SW has come to an end.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Kate The Bionic Uterus

[Doctor Evil 51]

Thank you. Specificly there are more sophisticated science fiction movies that are worth MY time. And my time has nothing to do with anybody else. Besides the classics, I thought Ex Machina was amazing.

 

Then go watch those movies because Star Wars has never been a "sophisticated" sci-fi movie, it's basically like LOTR: An epic retelling of the hero's journey with slightly different events, results, and whole new characters.  If you want sophisitication, go watch Interstellar, 2001, or the Martian, Alien, etc.

 

 

SW TFA is very comparable to Mad Max Fury Road in that they were both basically remakes of previous titles. Fury Road was a superior movie imo and I am please to note that since my post here I have learned that I am far from alone. In almost every SW forum there is a significant number of people who disliked where the story has gone.

 

So in your words then, you're fine with MMFR for being a "remake" but not Star Wars? The double standard is strong with this one.

 

 

As a movie sw tfa was a good action flick at best. There is no question it was exciting. Story wise it is pathetic. The fact that the new Darth Vader is Han and Leia's son just is too stupid to bear.  You would never find an American Vietnam veteran's son joining the communists in North Vietnam 25 years later and attacking the USA or children of holocaust survivors becoming nazis and killing jews. It doesn't make a difference how much they dislike their fathers this would just never happen. It is beyond reason! The story just falls apart right there. 

 

You seemed to be in awe of EU, but then EU made the new darth vader as Han and Leia's son (Jacen Solo). Forgot about that did you? As for Kylo, Maybe you're not taking into account the massive amount of pressure he probably was under, being the grand son of Darth Vader, son of the famous Han Solo and Leia Organa, and nephew to Luke Skywalker, and having to live up to their legacy?

 

Just because he's their son doesn't make him the personality of Han and Leia, let alone the two most likely had marital problems because Han isn't the 9-5 kind of father, rather he probably wasn't home much.

 

that logic by the way then should be applied to Anakin and how he never should have become evil because he fought for good and was a good soul as a young slave

 

 flame bait moved to woft file, no wonder the troll liked this comment ^^

 

It's not flame bait, it's a genuine question when you basically categorized all of us who like TFA to have a "lower standard of entertainment". I don't know VP very well, but he doesn't seem to be the kind of person who flame baits. If he was, he would have been far more active in this thread.

 

I like how you think I'm a troll simply because I am capable of forming a counter-argument and being able to maintain it, but believe what you want then. Not my fault that you don't bother to check the other side of the coin

[Kate The Bionic Uterus 12]

SNIP

 

I am surprised that your STRAWMAN TROLLING has been permitted here. This forum enforces so many archaic rules but they let your continued arguing with EVERY other member continue?

 

I have not even bothered to read any of your posts and I bet most other people here have skipped over your endless insults as well. It is painfully obvious you want to be right. So I declare you the winner. You are the winner.

 

Congratulations you have done well for yourself.

[Haveayap 127]

I am surprised that your STRAWMAN TROLLING has been permitted here. This forum enforces so many archaic rules but they let your continued arguing with EVERY other member continue?

 

I have not even bothered to read any of your posts and I bet most other people here have skipped over your endless insults as well. It is painfully obvious you want to be right. So I declare you the winner. You are the winner.

 

Congratulations you have done well for yourself.

hes upset because JJ admitted TFA was ANH rip off after he'd spent weeks arguing it wasn't... the proofs in the pudding.

 

 

Using an article might be better considering that youtube vid is extremely biased, keep trying on that whole "it totally ripped of ANH whine whine whine!", because he doesn't have to justify himself to anyone.

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-responds-to-the-force-awakens-a-new-hope-comparisons/

 

this one works too   --> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jj-abrams-criticism-star-wars-the-force-awakens-a-new-hope-rip-off-a6804546.html

your article still says he intentionally copied ANH lol... You cant argue the facts

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

obvious flame bait moved to woft file, no wonder the troll liked this comment ^^

 

I wasn't trying to flamebait, it honestly seemed to me that you were trying to establish that you had higher expectations than others younger than yourself. Your statement seemed more flame-baity to me, to be honest.

 

But Haveayap helped clarify, and offered his explanation, which then made sense and I dropped the issue. I apologize for the subtext I implied posting that response.

[1Leonard 134]

 

hes upset because JJ admitted TFA was ANH rip off after he'd spent weeks arguing it wasn't... the proofs in the pudding.

 

 

your article still says he intentionally copied ANH lol... 

 

I don't think anyone ever argued that TFA didn't use a lot of elements from the original trilogy. I believe consensus is that he uses plotpoints but in new ways and with new characters. In that article JJ also never states that he copied ANH piece for piece but that he wanted to make a movie that felt familiar to introduce new characters before they went on to other subjects, which we'll see in the next movies. 

 

 

 

You cant argue the facts

 

This is a bit dramatic, don't you think? As I explained above your interpretation of what Abrams is not exactly what he said. You either jump to conclusions too quickly or you don't explain why you came to the conclusion you are at right now. Don't do the first and try to do the latter.

[Haveayap 127]

I don't think anyone ever argued that TFA didn't use a lot of elements from the original trilogy. I believe consensus is that he uses plotpoints but in new ways and with new characters. In that article JJ also never states that he copied ANH piece for piece but that he wanted to make a movie that felt familiar to introduce new characters before they went on to other subjects, which we'll see in the next movies. 

 

 

 

This is a bit dramatic, don't you think? As I explained above your interpretation of what Abrams is not exactly what he said. You either jump to conclusions too quickly or you don't explain why you came to the conclusion you are at right now. Don't do the first and try to do the latter.

he intentionally copied ANH plot points... what more is their to say? That JJ lacks creativity?? the proofs in the pudding

[sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY 60]

Well, I guess I've waited long enough. Here's my overview. I'll break it down. You might want to grab a hot drink or a snack if you plan to read my entire comment.

 

First, let me set the scene. I was fairly sceptical at first, mostly because Disney seemed so sure it was going to be a success that it seemed to heavily tempt fate. Then it came out and I began to hear positive things about it from my friends, some of which were not fond of Star Wars. So I began to get optimistic and it was with tentative hope that I went to watch it with. I was also on total media black-out on anything related to the film. Consequently, I was not spoiled. I did hear the Jar-Jar theory, but it was only a theory, a theory I'd already heard in fact.

 

It started well; Stormtroopers asserting themselves as a credible threat, Kylo Ren likewise with his 'stop the blaster bolt' trick and making people unable to move and all. BB-8 gets sent off on the run and things don't look good for the heroes. Then we meet Rey, who is a hybrid of Jarael and Luke Skywalker with a somewhat unique flair added. I can look past that, provided she doesn't turn out to be a long lost Skywalker. Rey establishes herself well and is nice and relatable.

 

Meanwhile, a Stormtrooper is empathised. This is good. It's not a new concept, but this is the first time it has been approached this way AFAIK. He busts out Poe and they get some good bonding and banter before sh*t gets real and Poe dies. This is good because we really start to sympathise with Finn and Poe's death conveys the weight of the threat, since he has plot significance and had got to know him well.

 

BB-8 finds Rey and they sorta bond, then Finn finds them both - as do a sh*tloada Stormtroopers and an excellent chase scene happens involving them stealing the Millennium Falcon. I don't really have an issue with the Falcon just happening to be there - it's long been established that The Force can be pushy when it wants to be. All the while, Finn shows how his total lack of a childhood has made him somewhat clingy and Rey tries to show how independent she is, but in the attempt only serves to demonstrate how immature she is. This is excellent character establishment.

 

then they get jacked by Han and Chewie, who ware looking for the ship anyway. Han and Chewie have been looking for the ship for some time, but they have bigger concerns - a bunch of pirates or smuggers. Then Han's cargo gets let out and we have another excellent sequence as it tries to eat them all. Then the Falcon gets away and we get a little bit of explanation on the state of the galaxy. A little, but not much. Han and Chewie are brilliant in this btw, Han being killed off so soon is quite frankly a waste of Ford's talent. It was at this point that I began to cynically analyse which of the main four old faces was gonna get the axe (Luke, Leia, Han or Chewie). I cynically expected one of them to die because betting that all four of the actors would physically be able to make it to the end of the three films seemed a tad too optimistic. It also ups the stakes and if there's one thing we've learned in fiction it's that the elderly are expendable. Chewie got it in the EU, so the question was who would it be this time.

 

I quickly ruled out Luke, since it became quickly apparent that he was going to do f**k all, if anything, in this film.

 

They land on some planet and Han teaches Rey gun safety. This is good.

 

So they go and see Maz, who I loved. Then the problems start to creep in.

 

First problem. Is anyone else getting tired of planet-killing weapons yet? At least the Mass-Shadow Generator and World Devastators were interesting twists. Has it not become alarmingly apparent that, in the words of Mira: "Mass-slaughter weapons only cause trouble."?

Also, maybe this was just me, but why was 70 odd years of technological development being used to make a weapon that was less efficient than the last one? A sun for a planet and a bunch of moons? Just make five death stars and connect them together.

Also, could we have a little subtlety on the Nazi enemies please? We aren't five. Seriously. Red banners? Shouty nationalistic speech?

 

Second problem. Why are we only finding out about the f**king new Republic mere moments before it gets taken out of play? Why is the planet destroyed of NO VALUE to the watcher? It's just some random thing that exists, then doesn't. We as the audience don't get the full weight of if say, Coruscant, Tatooine (ignoring why they would bother destroying Tatooine) or Bespin were destroyed. Way to f**k it up.

 

Third problem. How is Anakin's lightsaber here? Wasn't it last seen dropping down into the atmosphere of a gas giant? Who the hell bothered to go and trawl all that viscous cloud to find it?

 

Then the Stormtroopers find the good guys and Finn gets his ass handed to him since he's never used a lightsaber before. This is good.

 

Then 'the resistance' finds them. They're called the resistance because the Rebellion is presumably now the Republic, which just blew up. Apparently they figured we couldn't handle the idea of there being a new rebellion.

Poe is suddenly alive - way to completely undermine the threat of the enemy and the stakes, guys!

 

Then Leia and 3PO arrive on the scene and are wonderful. At some point (I can't remember when) it got established that Kylo Ren is Han and Leia's kid. This means that he is now directly competing with Jacen Solo. It also means that Supreme leader Snoke is in direct competition with both Vergere and Lumiya. So lets talk about them both now.

 

One word. Underwhelming. Snoke is a pastiche of every generic evil villain and is cripplingly boring. His only merit is how calm he remains when everything goes wrong. Andy Serkis is the master of emotion and the face - he is being sinfully underutilised. Vergere and Lumiya were both much more interesting characters, but also much, much more sinister villains.

 

Jacen (oh sorry, Kylo) suffers from the 'Darth Revan' effect. That's probably not what it's called, if anyone knows the name for it then please tell me. Basically he was much more interesting, threatening and engaging before the mask/helmet came off. His actor does good work, but the direction of him when he's not wearing the mask is awful. He also comes across as pathetic the more we find out about him. As for how he compares to Legends-Jacen Solo, I'll reserve judgement until we find out the exact circumstances on his fall.

 

Back on track plot-wise. Rey is abducted and quickly shows affinity with The Force, prompting Jacen to leave her alone with one lone Stormtrooper. This is their top guy. This is their Vader. They have just lost so much of their menace.

 

The heroes plan a mission to destroy the Starkiller (that was a nice little shout-out, kudos to whoever put that in) involving X-wings and a tiny bit to hit on the surface of the station. Finn, Han and Chewie also go to rescue Rey after infiltrating the situation. This is where it starts to smack just a tad too much of familiarity.

 

And here we have a massive problem. Why is Leia not going with them? The Leia I remember would have grabbed a weapon and joined them on the Falcon. Also, y she no Jedi? This is also the point where I ruled out Leia from dying, seeing as she wasn't gonna be anywhere near danger. Unless they'd actually had the resistance base destroyed. Oh wait, that would have been a real plot twist wouldn't it?

 

So Rey breaks herself out (In hilarious and spectacular fashion), meets up with the others and they proceed to do their sabotage. Then Han runs into Jacen and I lock him in as the one to get the chop. I'm right. It's reasonably well done and Chewie's and Leia's reactions were superb. But it didn't have the punch it should have, to me at least.

 

And then things go straight off a cliff.

 

I can appreciate that Jacen is injured, but his opponents are total novices in the weapon they are using. He should still beat them both. This is the guy who took down the new Jedi order (total cop out by the way). He the First Order's top enforcer. He should be able to adequately cope with an injury and two novices. The heroes should have made their escape having been forced to flee. The second reason he should not have lost is because the First Order has now been thoroughly de-fanged. Their superweapon is gone, Jacen is now a total joke, Snoke was never threatening to begin with and Stormtroopers got mowed over by the crateload at the end. So who's left? Phasma? She was disposed of with pretty laughable ease. They now have to build at least two more films off the back of an enemy who can't be taken seriously any more.

 

So there is celebration, Rey goes off to Ireland (coz Ireland is now a planet). R2 wakes up for exactly one scene. Mark Hammil gets paid an extortionate amount to do very little and I'm left wondering what exactly could threaten our heroes now.

 

Overall. Kinda-good.

 

It started well, but after Maz it just slid downhill to an anticlimax and I was left feeling unsatisfied.

 

It's unoriginal. Nostalgia and callbacks are good but this clings to familiar ground so much that it's kinda sad. This is a reboot. It needed to be as good or better than what it's rebooting over. It wasn't. It needed to go in it's own direction, something new. It needed to smash it out of the park. It failed. Instead it took the coward's way out and served us watered down recycled EU that was less engaging. I'd very much appreciate if someone photoshopped an image of Stewie Griffin in his house made of Brian's books, with DVDs and blue-rays of ep. VII in place of the books, while uttering the line: "My house is made of mediocrity!" in glee.

 

Yes, it's better than the prequels. Fish in a barrel.

 

I can see what attracts casual fans or new audiences, but as a long-time Star Wars fan, it has nothing new or interesting for me - apart from the Falcon chase scene on Jakku and the cargo freighter sequence. But near enough everything else I've seen before, often done better.

 

They also took the cowards way out on who they killed off. If they really wanted to show us they were serious, they should have killed off one of the new main characters - preferably near the end of the film after we'd spent some time to get to know them.

 

All Abrams has done is show that he has not enough creativity and too much nostalgia. He has destroyed any faith I had that he will take this in an interesting direction.

 

[edited to '*' some swears, sorry about that fellas. Also edited to clear up some grammar and refine some points.]

[1Leonard 134]

he intentionally copied ANH plot points... what more is their to say? That JJ lacks creativity??

 

Yes, so you've said, but "reusing" a plot point (punctation marks because it's in an entirely different context, with different characters and in a different place in the timing of the movie) is not "copying a whole story", as you claim.

You're abstracting both stories to the point they look like each other, but the thing is, you can do that with any story in the saga. 

 

Using your logic I could claim both TFA and ANH are filthy unoriginal rip-offs because they both utilize the hero's journey story structure by Joseph Campbell. It's ridiculous.

 

 

the proofs in the pudding

 

So you've said a couple of times in this thread, but repeating it won't add any value to your argument.

[Doctor Evil 51]

I am surprised that your STRAWMAN TROLLING has been permitted here. This forum enforces so many archaic rules but they let your continued arguing with EVERY other member continue?

 

I have not even bothered to read any of your posts and I bet most other people here have skipped over your endless insults as well. It is painfully obvious you want to be right. So I declare you the winner. You are the winner.

 

Congratulations you have done well for yourself.

 

Lol, guess I'm a troll for having a response. So I'm not allowed to respond to something I feel has flaws, in a thread that's about discussing the movie? Ok.

 

If you're going to make a point, expect someone to respond. Debate 101, and if you're going to act like an idiot then expect to be ridiculed somewhat. Don't get mad when we can actually point stuff wrong.

 

hes upset because JJ admitted TFA was ANH rip off after he'd spent weeks arguing it wasn't... the proofs in the pudding.

 

The proof is in the pudding that He said there was SOME re-usages, that doesn't mean it was an ANH rip off. If your logic goes by that then TPM is a ripoff of ANH, and ANH is total garbage for ripping off Joseph Cambell

 

EDIT: Snap, looks like I copied off leonard there

 

your article still says he intentionally copied ANH lol... You cant argue the facts

 

I can argue the facts when they are hilariously wrong and ridiculously construed... He said he can see why you'd think that, but actually the several HOMAGES were intentional. I don't think that counts as a blanket copy paste.

 

You're saying how I'm mad, and yet you're the one sounding upset because I can stand by my opinion and back it up with facts while you keep saying stuff without giving sufficient evidence to back it up. Have a Nice Day

 

Please let me know when you can actually debate and use reading skills

[sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY 60]

I am surprised that your STRAWMAN TROLLING has been permitted here. This forum enforces so many archaic rules but they let your continued arguing with EVERY other member continue?

 

I have not even bothered to read any of your posts and I bet most other people here have skipped over your endless insults as well. It is painfully obvious you want to be right. So I declare you the winner. You are the winner.

 

Congratulations you have done well for yourself.

 

1.) You don't appear to possess an accurate understanding of what a Troll is in terms of the internet.

 

2.) tl;dr destroys your response. You cannot construct a valid counterargument without reading the argument.

 

3.) Projection of what you 'bet' someone said or did also destroys your response, for the same reason.

 

4.) May I ask which of this forum's rules are archaic?

 

5.) Just because a rule is old (archaic), does not mean it is wrong or outdated.

 

6.) There is nothing wrong with an argument. If Doctor Evil has a differing opinion on a subject, he is entitled to voice it, providing he remains civil and does not violate this forum's rules.

 

And on that note, I am going to voice my own argument to Doctor Evil's opinion on the subject of Abrams 'copying' SW ep.IV:

 

I agree, he did not plaigurise, nor did he admit to it. I do however feel that his film clings too much to the known path. It feels more like an adaption than a sequel and I feel it needed to establish its own identity. It was kinda good, but I'll probably have forgotten most of it in ten years since there wasn't a great deal of uniqueness.

[Doctor Evil 51]

I agree, he did not plaigurise, nor did he admit to it. I do however feel that his film clings too much to the known path. It feels more like an adaption than a sequel and I feel it needed to establish its own identity. It was kinda good, but I'll probably have forgotten most of it in ten years since there wasn't a great deal of uniqueness.

 

Thanks for that man, and I'll read all of your previous post eventually, but I just got off work so LOL

 

TBQH, I think this is what they are playing off though: Events repeating, the ring theory, etc, and maybe it's why Luke ended up just walking away, because he knew that these events would keep happening? Maybe that would be the plot... That would be brilliant

 

There's just too much we don't know for us to be making assumptions about the entire movie and trilogy at this point as it deliberately leaves so much vague

[sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY 60]

Thanks for that man, and I'll read all of your previous post eventually, but I just got off work so LOL

 

TBQH, I think this is what they are playing off though: Events repeating, the ring theory, etc, and maybe it's why Luke ended up just walking away, because he knew that these events would keep happening? Maybe that would be the plot... That would be brilliant

 

There's just too much we don't know for us to be making assumptions about the entire movie and trilogy at this point as it deliberately leaves so much vague

Most welcome, although why do you assume I'm a man?

 

Just kidding, I am... Or am I?   POWER OF ANONYMITY!

 

I'm on GMT. Glad I don't need to be up till 11-12...

 

I'm currently judging it as a standalone film; as the first of the new trilogy, I feel it needs to establish itself on its own merits.

 

'History repeats' would be a good theme, but it should be possible to have more deviation imo.

[Doctor Evil 51]

I'm currently judging it as a standalone film; as the first of the new trilogy, I feel it needs to establish itself on its own merits.

 

'History repeats' would be a good theme, but it should be possible to have more deviation imo.

 

Perhaps, but it's also hard to judge LOTR as a standalone since they all are parts of a great saga, and I think that's how Disney is shaping the new trilogy.

 

As for deviation, I think it is more or less in how the story was told and with what characters, for example, how Ironic was it that Han Solo of all people was the one who told rey and finn about the force? I think, though, the deviation was pretty muc hthere

 

Originality is something a lot of movies lack, especially star wars. As long as the story is told well, and done right, it will fly for me. That's my take on it, but I can respect your wish for a bit more deviation.

[sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY 60]

Perhaps, but it's also hard to judge LOTR as a standalone since they all are parts of a great saga, and I think that's how Disney is shaping the new trilogy.

 

As for deviation, I think it is more or less in how the story was told and with what characters, for example, how Ironic was it that Han Solo of all people was the one who told rey and finn about the force? I think, though, the deviation was pretty muc hthere

 

Originality is something a lot of movies lack, especially star wars. As long as the story is told well, and done right, it will fly for me. That's my take on it, but I can respect your wish for a bit more deviation.

 

The matter on if it was different enough will probably come down to personal taste, there's hardly any sure-fire way to tell if something is 'too similar' or 'not different enough'. I can respect your opinion on it, but for me it unfortunately was.

 

My basic opinion on it was 'kinda good', but if you're gonna reboot something, you should really justify it by making it spectacular imo.

 

btw, the Han scene was brilliant for that reason. I just wish the rest of the film had more stuff that good.

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

Since you folks can't behave, I'm locking this thread.  Feel free to continue this discussion in PMs or another forum.