Star Wars Episode VII Discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

[Doctor Evil 51]

Where do I even begin? I guess with the known and beloved characters. Nothing Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Lando, Admiral Ackbar, Mon Mothma, Wedge Antilles etc. did matters. 30 years have passed and we have basically the same situation again. I do not care if you call this a gross oversimplification, if the situation lends itself to make A New Hope BIGGER, LOUDER, FASTER Edition with sprinkles of Empire and Return it is the same thing. At least in the EU after the Emperor's death there was a real hope that things would get better which made sense but noooooo we need to keep the status quo here.

 

 It wasnt status quo. The Rebellion Won, and established a new government to replace the Empire known as the Republic, however a terrorist organization known as The First Order devoted to the ideals of the Empire wanted to reverse that. It's like how ISIS cropped up about 10 years after Al Queda's deal. And yes it is a gross oversimplification. The similarities to the other movies were intentionally done by Abrams rather than by accident, and second of all the movie has some big differences

 

This movie turns all returning characters into fuckups. Luke tried to get the Jedi going again, failed and than went sulkely into exile. That is just not his personality at all and therefore is a betrayal.

 

How would you feel if you had a great project that was yours, one that you worked so hard on, to only have it blow up in your face and then screw everything over? Luke only had a week's worth of training total, so he's not exactly some sort of all-knowing Jedi Master. If the Jedi of old made mistakes and were trained for years, expect Luke to create some big screw ups. Also, this is 30 years later in the saga, people change.

 

Leia for some stupid reason isn't part of the government where she belongs but the general of this new Resistance of the First Order. For crying out loud why didn't she develop here latent force abilities? She would have been the logic choice as Luke's first student just as it happened in the EU, but because it was in the EU we can't have that now can we

 

If you read EU as well as you thought, Leia didn't become a student until she was older than she is in this movie... simply because she didn't want to do it. Just because you can become a jedi doesn't mean you'd want to, even though I would. Second of all, the Resistance is an offshoot on the New Republic

 

Han Solo is either nearly 70 years old or he is 70 years old and he is still smuggling stuff and is indebted to aholes across the galaxy WTF? Another character that should have progressed in the story to be something different. I mean he is the hero and respected general who led the planetary assault to take down the 2nd Death Stars shield. This character would have realised his smuggling days are DONE. He doesn't need to do it ANYMORE. He has a greater and better calling than this but no we need to tickle that nostalgia bone. There can be no logical char progression if we want to create ANH 2.0. This is a personal pet peeve of mine. Han Solo taking Chewie's bowcaster using it and than gushing all over this thing is stupid beyond believe in two ways. The first is that a wookie bowcaster needs a wookies strength to be operated but Abrams wouldn't be Abrams if that mattered to him. The second is that Han has been around Chewies bowcaster for about 50 years or more. He has seen that thing countless times in action. Why would he ever be surprised about its capabilities? Han takes the mentor role of our female protagonist and of course just as the mentor in ANH he has to die. Harrison Ford most likely only agree to return to kill Han off as well. There was zero emotional impact when it finally happened. You saw it coming from the getgo and because of that it has no weight.

 

You should read that response to the 40 plot holes. Han Solo lost his son to becoming a mass murder, that's as bad as if he died. When parents lose a son like that, it affects then deeply and psychologically scars them. Generally when that happens to people, they tend to go back to something comfortable and familiar, in this case for Han it was smuggling simply because it helps him forget the hurt. Psychology 101. Second of all, wtf kind of logic is that about the bowcaster? It's a weapon that's the size of an m4 carbine, and doesn't exactly appear to be that heavy. And if we're pulling "Well according to EU," please remember that Kyle Katarn had no trouble wielding bowcasters throughout the Jedi Knight series, or Delta Squad for that matter in Republic Commando.

 

We knew Han was going to die. Why? Because Harrison wanted him to die way back in ROTJ and there was no way he'd do it again without killing him off. I don't understand how it holds no emotional impact when he basically evolves to the point from being a douchebag to a caring father who's willing to give up his life for a chance to save his son.

 

Where the hell is Lando Calrissian?

 

Because the movie needs to include every single character of the OT... For that matter, where was he in the prequels? Where's palpatine in the new movies? Where's Boba Fett in the new movies, WHERES JABBA's CORPSE

 

Finn is a weird mix for me between an Eddy Murphy character, a coward, and somehow still able to kick some butt and it doesn't work at all. His two fights with Anakin's lightsaber are laughable and ludicrous. Somebody without a connection to the force is more likely to cut off his own limps than somebody elses. Because of its weird properties like the blade having no noticeable weight a Jedi needs to use the force to wield a lightsaber effectively. That is also why during lightsaber fights not many force abilities are ever used, because the Jedi is already occupied with wielding his lightsaber. That's why I despise these two scenes with all my heart. A prime example of Abrams pissing all over established lore again which he mastered to a degree seldom witnessed.

 

Poe had a good beginning which was than subsequently destroyed by his deus ex machine reappearance. Oh I got lost in the desert and than I was picked up. Really? His pilot abilities are so great that the dog fight scenes with the TIE-fighters turn into a parody. One maneuver, three destroyed TIEs BOOM BOOM BOOM. In this new Star Wars Wedges abilities are just not good enough, Wedge you suck to much for ANH BIGGER LOUDER FASTER! His buddy buddy thing with Finn has no time to develop and literally comes out of nowhere.

 

Once again... where is it mentioned, if ever, that non-force wielders can't use a lightsaber? Han cut open a tauntaun with a lightsaber, guess he should have died instantly. How about Pre Vizla from the Clone Wars series who has no force abilities what so ever yet is seen nearly beating Obi-Wan? Your established lore doesn't even exist, and also to expand: Lightsabers aren't generally used by non-force users simply because they can't predict blaster bolts coming in, and it is about as useful as a sword in an age of guns to non force users.

 

Tends to happen when he gets launched in a different direction from Finn, it's not that hard. He's actually a good pilot that can show his skill finally with the movie technology we have With Luke, his skill wasn't exactly as pronounced simply due to the constrained filming tech of the time. He's friends with finn because he rescued him and maybe people just are easy to get along with.

 

Also, wedge wasn't in the movie because the actor thought being in Star Wars again was beneath him

 

Kylo Ren *sigh* what a pathetic replacement as a main villian. When things don't go his way he hacks ship consoles a part with a lightsaber like some kindergarden child's temper tandrum. I also laughed when he removed his mask and the face of Adam Driver appeared. A lot of people critize his mask wearing just for being a Vader rip-off. I am actually fine with it, he desperately needs the mask to have any kind of intimidation factor. As soon as the mask came off he was no more than an unconvincing Dark Side user. As for his Vader worship, did nobody tell him the whole story of Anakin Skywalker. He says "I am going to finish what you began grandfather" but his grandfather redeemed himself for the love of a son and gave up on the Dark Side business. This guy isn't aware of that fact? Also gets beat by a non force user and one with zero or barely any training while himself being trained his whole life. Adam Driver convinced me in no scene without a helmet that he was a Dark side force user. He always looked confused and never managed to display aggression at any point in the movie. Haiden Christensen managed to do that quite convincingly. Even when he stabs his father Kylo still looks confused, in doubt and whiny even when he is saying that things are now clear for him. We are suppossed to be afraid of this guy?

 

I guess if the villain is a human person with a struggle between light and dark rather than a mysterious figure, he's automatically pathetic. How would you feel, considering that your grandfather was a huge sith lord and you had to live up to the legacy of your family members? As for the "finish what you started", yes we know Vader redeemed himself but maybe you're leaving out the possibility that this is more manipulation by Snoke. We're not supposed to fear him, we're supposed to sympathize and simultaneously get angry with because he betrays his father.

 

And now for the main event the female heroine of this whole deal. I have to preface this by saying i LIKE strong female characters, because somebody might accuse me of hating it just for that but that couldn't be further from the truth. When it was announced that the exile would be canonically a female I was very happy with that particular decision. Kreia is my favorite fictional mentor character of all time. My favorite playthrough is female exile with a female mentor so if you accuse me of misogyni you are wrong. But Rey must be the queen of Mary Sue characters. The mans name is JeffREY Jacob Abrams and if you still think that has nothing to do with her wondrous abilities i can't help you.

 

Rey gets everything handed to her without any or very little explanation. Never flown a spaceship in her life, but can pilot the Falcon in a dogfight in a way that makes Han Solo green with envy. Can repair the Falcon better than Han as well although he has known this ship for about 50 years. Is an expert in hand to hand combat and staff combat which somehow ludicrously translates to her also being able to fight competently with a lightsaber. As I already stated with Finn it wouldn't translate at all. Learns to shoot a blaster like an expert in 10 seconds flat. Can just selfteach herself force abilities of high order like the Jedi mindtrick while just recently being told that Jedi actually existed. Before thinking they were a myth. Rips a lightsaber straight out of a forcegrip of a way more experienced and trained force user. It isn't even a struggle for the saber it just flies straight into her hand with no effort whatsoever. Beats said force user (I know he is wounded, I still won't let it go) in a saber fight with either no or so little training that it would hardly help her.

Yes I am aware that people theorize that she received training prior to having been dropped of at Tatoo... excuse me Jakku. As I said it would be logically so little that it doesn't matter. Her memory clearly showed that she was youngling age when she was dropped of at Jakku without any guardian like a true Spartan. Do you remember Yoda's youngling class and what they did with a lightsaber? Waving the lightsaber around from left to right a bit with the training drone set to lowest level. THAT is the kind of training Rey would have logically received at that point which makes perfect sense. A child so young needs to still get the hang of the physical world and therefore understanding spiritual or metaphysical concepts of high order is very VERY unrealistic, but he wouldn't be Abrams if he cared about any of that.

 

Anakin was the chosen one and he also needed to be trained in the force. Before that he had the untrained abilities. Luke also needed to be trained. He as well possessed the untrained abilities. But no not this little snowflake. She is after all a veiled Disney princess and those excel at stuff for no apparent reason. Aside from the female lead she is also the male lead as well. When Finn grabbed her hand to run she refused to do it after all we need to drive the point home that little miss perfect is a strong female who needs not depend on silly males. But when she takes his hand it is fine. The characters went to her rescue but our little Mary Sue wouldn't be a Mary Sue if she didn't just free herself before anyone can help her. Strong independent female needs no help from anybody. Notice that the male leads which took her role previously pretty often required help or got their butts kicked badly. If you by now think I hate this new Disney princess you are completely right, but I am completely Dark Side when it comes to this whole movie.

 

Are you kidding me? She says she's a pilot in the freaking movie, she wouldn't say that if she had never piloted anything in her life. Second of all she spent half of her life on a desert junkyard with tons of electronic junk that she has to scavenge to make a living... If you want to survive, you tend to pick up a thing or two. She has a staff, and that's basically the same idea as a lightsaber because a lightsaber is just a sword made of lasers. As for a blaster, it's not that hard... All it takes is point and shoot ( plus the safety for that gun) and I'm sure she's fired a blaster before on Jakku.

 

Apparently the idea of learn fast or die can't apply to star wars, and second of all we know the force is a deity, one with a will. There are times where it guides individuals. She let her instincts take control, which allowed her to be so potent.

 

Second of all, let's discuss why Luke wasn't as good to start

 

"I don't believe it!" - Luke

"That is why you fail" - Yoda

 

It's that simple, but Rey probably did believe she can do it because she didn't have much choice. As kreia says: "Nothing is impossible with the Force"

 

Kylo Renn isn't even a full sith, Snoke said it himself that he needed to complete his training and he  wasn't as effective because he was injured by chewbacca's bowcaster when he was shot, a weapon that we see is immensely powerful... I think that would severly hamper his ability to fight as well as he can, but Finn get's his asskicked, and Rey succeeds because Finn managed to injure Renn a bit before being chopped down.

 

On the overall plot the search for Luke Skywalker is just a thin veil to tell ANH again with a bit of Empire and Return. How this movie blatantly copies that plot has already been discussed here so I don't need to repeat it myself. Why so many people are willing to give this movie a pass is utterly mind boggling to me. Never in the history of ever to my knowledge has a franchise ripped of its own story so shamelessly. The prequels also contain nods to the original, like Padme putting a blanket on Anakin the way Leia did to Luke. But in this movie it is like being hit with the steel pan of nostalgia all the time. Remember this? *BANG* You liked that a lot didn't you? *BANG* AND THIS *BANG* AND THIS *BANG* AND ALSO THIS!!!!!!!!!!11111

 

On Anakin's lightsaber (yes Anakin's, he built it and fought through a good bit of the Clone Wars with it. A lightsaber is a personal weapon after all.)

What is it even doing in this Cantina? For all we know it should have disintegrated while falling to the "surface" of Bespin. And furthermore why can every idiot that goes backstage just open that box and leave with that thing? That door wasn't even locked.

 

Wait, a New Hope was about finding the lost Jedi instead of Destroying the Death Star? Oh I should have known! We're giving it a pass because it's a good movie, it doesn't blatantly copy off the original. If we're going that route, then remember the "original" copied directly from Joseph Campell and the Hero's Journey, which i put the link to earlier in the thread

 

Have you ever heard of something called the force? It tends to affect things in the physical realm, with or without motivation. That locked door is easily explained by that. As for the light saber, that's something you can attribute to a plot element that will be explained in the next movie.

 

I don't blame Kasdan for this mess. I think he had no leeway whatsoever. They told him to write an ANH copy and he did. I do blame him for accepting the job. Orci and Kurtzman would have sufficed to write this dreg.

 

To sum it all up The Farce Awakens is a great action movie and a terrible entry in the Star Wars story, as Black Flag is a great pirate's game but a terrible Assassin's Creed and Into Darkness is another great action movie but an atrocious Star Trek movie. At least the Star Trek fanbase recognized it for what it is.

 

Actually Star Trek fans generally liked the new movie, it was Into Darkness that was shunned. Star Trek 09 was only smacked on by some of the hardcore original series fanboys.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Doctor Evil

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

I agree with the point about it being sort of weird that Han doesn't ever use Chewie's bowcaster until now.

 

Maybe I'm "not a true Star Wars fan" or something, but I didn't see Han's death coming, which helped with the emotional impact. It also helped that he was the only OT character who really felt like a major part of the story and not more of a cameo.

 

I do think that Rey's Force abilities seem to manifest themselves a bit too quickly. As for the lightsabers, I don't think that Force Sensitivity is necessary to use them, but realistically some training would be necessary due to the weightlessness of the beam (which would particularly throw off experienced melee users such as Finn).

[Doctor Evil 51]

I do think that Rey's Force abilities seem to manifest themselves a bit too quickly. As for the lightsabers, I don't think that Force Sensitivity is necessary to use them, but realistically some training would be necessary due to the weightlessness of the beam (which would particularly throw off experienced melee users such as Finn).

 

But Finn has had training with melee, it's shown that every stormtrooper learns to use that one baton, and as for the "weightlessness" regardless of that, the principle is the same as a sword... with lasers. how many times do I need to say this?

 

 

I agree with the point about it being sort of weird that Han doesn't ever use Chewie's bowcaster until now.

 

Because it's not his gun nor his style, it's like how you use your same car for 10 years while the wife uses hers, then you swap one day and are like "wow!"

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

But Finn has had training with melee, it's shown that every stormtrooper learns to use that one baton, and as for the "weightlessness" regardless of that, the principle is the same as a sword... with lasers. how many times do I need to say this?

 

Yes, but the sword blade weighs something -- probably quite a bit -- and the lasers weigh nothing. I do believe that this would make it quite disorienting for an experienced melee user.

[Doctor Evil 51]

Yes, but the sword blade weighs something -- probably quite a bit -- and the lasers weigh nothing. I do believe that this would make it quite disorienting for an experienced melee user.

 

Where has it ever been said that a lightsaber is weightless? Please, tell me, because then Luke would not have been able to deflect those blaster bolts so easily on the Falcon in ANH since he had ZERO training prior by that logic that it requires training.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Huh, okay, guess that's not actually canon. I think I read it in the KOTOR manual, and it certainly makes sense...

 

Also note that Luke was being trained by a Jedi Master at that point.

[Doctor Evil 51]

Huh, okay, guess that's not actually canon. I think I read it in the KOTOR manual, and it certainly makes sense...

 

Again, non canon and used as an excuse so the non-jedi classes were restricted from using them

 

 

Also note that Luke was being trained by a Jedi Master at that point.

 

Because that makes all the difference in the span of 5 minutes of training all together. Obi-Wan literally sat back and just said "use the force" without telling him how to actually use the lightsaber.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Again, non canon and used as an excuse so the non-jedi classes were restricted from using them

 

You might be right on that one.

 

 

 

Because that makes all the difference in the span of 5 minutes of training all together. Obi-Wan literally sat back and just said "use the force" without telling him to actually use the lightsaber.

 

I don't think that this really needs any further discussion, but the trip to Alderaan was of an unspecified length, and it's not certain how long they were actually training...

[Haveayap 127]

 It wasnt status quo. The Rebellion Won, and established a new government to replace the Empire known as the Republic, however a terrorist organization known as The First Order devoted to the ideals of the Empire wanted to reverse that. It's like how ISIS cropped up about 10 years after Al Queda's deal. And yes it is a gross oversimplification. The similarities to the other movies were intentionally done by Abrams rather than by accident, and second of all the movie has some big differences

.

wrong, The rebellion didnt win, The empire were reorganized after the new republic won key battles than they both signed a treaty because of the never ending conflict. Also, Why do you bash every opinion that doesnt agree with you? It seems rather ridiculious that you still defend some of the issues this movie obviously has

[Doctor Evil 51]

wrong, The rebellion didnt win, The empire were reorganized after the new republic won key battles than they both signed a treaty because of the never ending conflict. Also, Why do you bash every opinion that doesnt agree with you? It seems rather ridiculious that you still defend some of the issues this movie obviously has

 

Source--> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order

Wookiepedia

"Following another year of bloody conflict, the fractured Empire would make its last stand over the sandy wastes of Jakku against the New Republic, resulting in high casualties on both sides. Defeated and facing severe internal unrest, the Empire would be forced to sign the Galactic Concordance, severely limiting its ability to wage war and ushering in its transformation into a mere rump state.^[3]

"

 

Looks like the rebel scum won to me. :/

 

I defend issues the movie obviously doesn't have, and I have the right to state my counter-points. If the Rebellion didn't win, then why were they the dominant government in the galaxy and the Empire wasn't even present? If the Empire was truly "re-organized" then that in itself is a victory for the Rebellion because it overtook the Empire as the DOMINANT FORCE IN THE GALAXY, second to the fact that the Empire signed the treaty in order to survive. Do you not understand politics?

 

I'm curious why you only address this point rather than my others, given that you think they are "obvious issues". Not only that, but I don't think you've ever addressed all of my points in a post, let alone read half of what I've written.

 

As for that, I'm thinking you're taking issue with the fact that I CAN provide counterpoints and explanations to these "issues", let alone that you seem to take issue yourself with those that like the movie for what it is.

 

I'm still waiting on the responses to that 40 points debunked article i posted AND the cinemasins SW video

[Flashblade 4]

Where has it ever been said that a lightsaber is weightless? Please, tell me, because then Luke would not have been able to deflect those blaster bolts so easily on the Falcon in ANH since he had ZERO training prior by that logic that it requires training.

The hilt has weight of course but the blade doesn't have a weight you can perceive normally as it is a compressed beam. Of course it has an atomic weight but that would hardly matter. First of Luke has the force inside him and second moving this blade slightly to make a blaster parry is not the same thing as wielding the lightsaber in combat trying to kill people. And that a Jedi was only able to use the weapon was established lore. When West End Games created the first Star Wars RPG this was pretty clearly stated about lightsabers and guess who they consulted when they created it. To my knowledge only in the EU was this rule ever broken by Boba Fett because of his sheer badass factor. I do not watch the Clone Wars series because the musical score is horrible unStar Wars, the 3d animation style looks terrible and it contains Ahsoka another concept that I despise. For me what happened in the Clone Wars was published by Dark Horse comics.

 

Rey doesn't learn anything, she excels at everything she touches immediately. Luke had to learn, Anakin had to learn and she doesn't. Yes the force has a will and it guides people. But I do take issue with the idea that it would aid this character more than any character previously including the chosen one Anakin. That is ludicrous to me.

[Doctor Evil 51]

Nice job not being able to respond to my other points, I'm still waiting for someone to do that

 

The hilt has weight of course but the blade doesn't have a weight you can perceive normally as it is a compressed beam. Of course it has an atomic weight but that would hardly matter. First of Luke has the force inside him and second moving this blade slightly to make a blaster parry is not the same thing as wielding the lightsaber in combat trying to kill people. And that a Jedi was only able to use the weapon was established lore. When West End Games created the first Star Wars RPG this was pretty clearly stated about lightsabers and guess who they consulted when they created it. To my knowledge only in the EU was this rule ever broken by Boba Fett because of his sheer badass factor. I do not watch the Clone Wars series because the musical score is horrible unStar Wars, the 3d animation style looks terrible and it contains Ahsoka another concept that I despise. For me what happened in the Clone Wars was published by Dark Horse comics.

 

Except that EU is no longer canon and that lore is as well, as 2013, all previous material other than the movies and the clone wars series was no longer canon. That "fact" is extremely obscure and didn't even apply to the movies. Regardless of you opinion of Clone Wars, it's canon and thus it shows standard people can use lightsabers. Pretend it's not canon all you like, but it is according to George Lucas Canon and Disney canon, and that West End games RPG probably said the same thing as for the reason kotor did: for a game design so the non jedi classes can't use lightsabers to create game balance

 

Oh, and let me point out that "lore" was ignored by George Lucas himself when he allowed Pre Vizla and General Grievous to be able to use lightsabers.

 

 

Rey doesn't learn anything, she excels at everything she touches immediately. Luke had to learn, Anakin had to learn and she doesn't.

 

And you know this how? your vast and infinite knowledge of this movie? She had to learn that the gun she was holding had a safety on, and like I said if you actually can read, we don't even know her past so how can you say she didn't know how to do some of that through actual training.

[Flashblade 4]

The hilt has weight of course but the blade doesn't have a weight you can perceive normally as it is a compressed beam. Of course it has an atomic weight but that would hardly matter. First of Luke has the force inside him and second moving this blade slightly to make a blaster parry is not the same thing as wielding the lightsaber in combat trying to kill people. And that a Jedi was only able to use the weapon was established lore. When West End Games created the first Star Wars RPG this was pretty clearly stated about lightsabers and guess who they consulted when they created it. To my knowledge only in the EU was this rule ever broken by Boba Fett because of his sheer badass factor. I do not watch the Clone Wars series because the musical score is horrible unStar Wars, the 3d animation style looks terrible and it contains Ahsoka another concept that I despise. For me what happened in the Clone Wars was published by Dark Horse comics.

 

Rey doesn't learn anything, she excels at everything she touches immediately. Luke had to learn, Anakin had to learn and she doesn't.

Ugh didn't want to quote myself here

[Doctor Evil 51]

Ugh didn't want to quote myself here

 

Then read my post, because I think that answers it suitingly for the context of the movie.

[LiliArch 115]

Where has it ever been said that a lightsaber is weightless? Please, tell me, because then Luke would not have been able to deflect those blaster bolts so easily on the Falcon in ANH since he had ZERO training prior by that logic that it requires training.

Where has it ever been said that lightsaber blades do have some significant weight? It's a beam of energy for crying out loud. Since when have lightbulbs became significantly heavier when they're switched on?

 

Not saying that a non-Force-user wouldn't be able to use a lightsaber, but you can't use training with a weapon that requires completely different muscle control for that. Logically, melee training would qualify you to the principles of (at least the basic) movements you need to do, but not to the fact how you need to control your body while doing it, if the balance of your weapon is not what you're used to.

[Doctor Evil 51]

Where has it ever been said that lightsaber blades do have some significant weight? It's a beam of energy for crying out loud. Since when have lightbulbs became significantly heavier when they're switched on?

 

Not saying that a non-Force-user wouldn't be able to use a lightsaber, but you can't use training with a weapon that requires completely different muscle control for that. Logically, melee training would qualify you to the principles of (at least the basic) movements you need to do, but not to the fact how you need to control your body while doing it, if the balance of your weapon is not what you're used to.

 

Did I say it was significant? You're forgetting the hilt is made of some kind of metal, which definitely does carry some sort of weight including the crystal inside. Maybe not as heavy as a general sword, but I don't see how it would be that disoreinting, and notice that Finn wasn't exactly good with the lightsaber anyway. His melee training prevented him from being completely inept, but he was defeated easily nonetheless

[LiliArch 115]

You're forgetting the hilt is made of some kind of metal, which definitely does carry some sort of weight including the crystal inside. Maybe not as heavy as a general sword, but I don't see how it would be that disoreinting, and notice that Finn wasn't exactly good with the lightsaber anyway.

I am not forgetting that. I was talking about balance, not the total weight. Center of gravity is elsewhere, and that would definitely mean something to your muscles. But I guess it is beyond my skill in English to even try to explain what I mean, so I guess I'm out of this conversation.

[Haveayap 127]

Source--> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order

Looks like the rebel scum won to me. :/

 

I defend issues the movie obviously doesn't have, and I have the right to state my counter-points. If the Rebellion didn't win, then why were they the dominant government in the galaxy and the Empire wasn't even present? If the Empire was truly "re-organized" then that in itself is a victory for the Rebellion because it overtook the Empire as the DOMINANT FORCE IN THE GALAXY, second to the fact that the Empire signed the treaty in order to survive. Do you not understand politics?

 

I'm curious why you only address this point rather than my others, given that you think they are "obvious issues". Not only that, but I don't think you've ever addressed all of my points in a post, let alone read half of what I've written.

 

As for that, I'm thinking you're taking issue with the fact that I CAN provide counterpoints and explanations to these "issues", let alone that you seem to take issue yourself with those that like the movie for what it is.

 

I'm still waiting on the responses to that 40 points debunked article i posted AND the cinemasins SW video

when you actually read the books, it was alot more interesting. Some unknown figure (Presumably Snoke) used the battle of Jakku to cleanse the Empire of its 'problems' as he worded it than signed the treaty so he could continue his missions in the outer rim (he was looking for  something powerful in the dark side of the force which he believes is where Sidious' 'power' came from (It has some interesting similarities with the star forge in which the way this dark side energy worked). He also believes that the key to the Empires/first orders success will be found in the unknown regions... So it's safe to assume that the empire did not lose the war, Snoke just needed time

[Markus Ramikin 107]

There can be no logical char progression if we want to create ANH 2.0.

While I feel as you do on most things you wrote about, I wouldn't go so far. I think it would doable - with a good writer with freedom to do his or her thing. But the impression TFA leaves on me was that the writers had marketing people breathing down their necks the whole time.

I'd rather have seen an adaptation (NOTE ADAPTATION not a copy) of Heirs to the Empire. That would have been awesome me thinks.

Oh yes, please.

 

And this is actually an example of what I just said - Zahn's trilogy often reads like I'm looking at scenes from the original Star Wars trilogy, starting with a Star Destroyer scene and culminating in a throne room confrontation with the EmperorC'baoth, and a simultaneous battle on the ground and in space, but it's done well and it doesn't mean characters have regressed. It's a plausible continuation that doesn't make me feel everyone's just been wasting their lives since RotJ.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

I am not forgetting that. I was talking about balance, not the total weight. Center of gravity is elsewhere, and that would definitely mean something to your muscles. But I guess it is beyond my skill in English to even try to explain what I mean, so I guess I'm out of this conversation.

 

I get exactly what you mean, and that was the point that I was trying to make. Unfortunately, I don't think that this particular argument can be entirely resolved until/unless specific information on the weight of the lightsaber blade is canonically given.

 

If it is weightless, though, perhaps Doc Evil can understand it this way: Imagine swinging a real sword, that does actually weigh something. Now imagine doing the same thing, with the hilt perhaps a bit heavier, but the blade weightless. Would it not have a different feel to it?

[Flashblade 4]

Then read my post, because I think that answers it suitingly for the context of the movie.

You misunderstood, I really did not intend to quote myself, it happened by accident.

 

 

And you know this how? your vast and infinite knowledge of this movie? She had to learn that the gun she was holding had a safety on, and like I said if you actually can read, we don't even know her past so how can you say she didn't know how to do some of that through actual training.

 

There are things that you simply won't be able to learn as a toddler (slight exageration here) and her memory shows they dropped her of on Tatoo... oh wait it was Jakku when she hadn't even reached a second digit birthday. So no at that age you can't teach somebody ANY disciplines to a master degree. it is just ludicrous. As I already said somebody so young still learns the basic things of the physical world around him or her. As for your comment that you pick something up when you are surrounded by electronic junk. I would like to drop you of with a mountain of electronic garbage, come back after 10 years and see what you have actually picked up from this. I doubt that that would have turned you into a master mechanic.

 

She stated she was a pilot... so freaking what? If you can fly a Cessna like a true master you won't be able to also fly a 747, an F-16 and a space shuttle like a master as well. It's laughable to assume so.

 

As a fun little exercise lets compare our force sensitive protagonists when we first met them so far.

 

Luke Skywalker son of the chosen one

- Expert level pilot

- Competent mechanic

- Competent with a blaster

- Latent force abilities

 

Anakin Skywalker the chosen one, most powerful force potential ever

- Expert level pilot

- Master mechanic

- Latent force abilities

 

Rey

- Expert level pilot

- Master mechanic

- Expert hand to hand fighter

- Expert staff fighter

- Competent with a lightsaber (self taught or very little training)

- Gifted marksman

- Can instinctively learn force abilities

- Can resist a trained force users interogation through the force (although untrained or very little training)

- Beats the same force user in a forcegrip duel without any effort (although untrained or very little training)

 

I rest my case.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Resisting Kylo Ren's force abilities, particularly the interrogation, seems reasonable enough to me, especially seeing as he's not fully trained yet.

[milestails 264]

Yeah Kylo Ren comes off as powerful yet severely flawed in his abilities hence Snoke saying that he has to finish his training.

[Rinku 22]

I forget if this was mentioned anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong), but the Star Wars in Character podcast actually has a pretty interesting take on Kylo Ren.  I haven't listened to the whole podcast yet, because it is 2 hours long and I need to focus on other things at the moment - just wanted to throw this out there for some of you who would be interested.

[Haveayap 127]

So JJ Abrams admits he ripped off ANH and tried to justify himself lol.... Read the article on the screen in this video: