What's in a Toolset

[Fair Strides 509]

Alright, KotOR modding has been around for over a decade. We've had KotOR Tool for the past 8 or so years and it's been great. But that toolset has issues and limitations that we've had to resort to other tools to work around...

 

Lately, I've been kind of the upstart-programmer with my tools and I know that the ones I have up here on DS are all a little buggy in their own ways, but I do intend to fix those issues eventually.

 

For now, I just have a simple question for the community:

 

IF and I do mean "IF", I were to work on a new toolset, what features would you, as a modder and/or user, want in that toolset?

 

List anything and everything, from the most advanced feature to the most mundane piece of usability/intuitive-function/user-convience you can think of.

 

The only thing currently out of the question is 3D-Rendering, such as a Model Viewer and all that that entails (You'll still have to use GMax or 3DSMax for your modelling...)

 

Now, let the chaos ensue...

[InSidious 237]

Just resolving the issues with KotOR Tool would be nice.

 

More seriously, I know I've raised this one before, but... a GUI editor. Opening .gui files as GFFs and then trying to make edits to them is horrible.

 

The ability to copy/paste material across fields and files would be really useful. So would being able to override an item's default basic value (something KT doesn't allow, meaning .gff editing the thing).

 

Er. Some kind of internal project tracker/manager might be good, though I have no idea what it would look like beyond containing a changelog for the project. Maybe an automatic changes.ini generator?

[Box 8]

I am a modder of limited scope but one feature that I think would be a big deal for me would be an integrated way of managing which files are included in your mod. Basically I've been working with Kotor Tool and TSLPatcher. I think it would be really powerful to combine the two into an 'IDE' of sorts that also adds some help with file management.

 

Going with that, it might be nice to integrate the logic used by TSLPatcher into the appropriate editors and project manager. So basically, you would be able to specify TSLPatcher operations within the editor. I could live without it though.

 

One thing I really like about TSLPatcher is that your whole 'project' is stored as a plain text which makes large-scale changes very quick using regular expressions or simple parsing programs.

 

I can go in more depth with stuff or list more ideas later if you want.

[LiliArch 115]

TSLPatcher has some ridiculous limitations, too, though.

 

Anyway - to business: a visual view of the .lyt-file, so you could not only see what pieces form the module, but also be able to see which room actually is where (like a map view with room labels).

[Fair Strides 509]

Just resolving the issues with KotOR Tool would be nice.

 

More seriously, I know I've raised this one before, but... a GUI editor. Opening .gui files as GFFs and then trying to make edits to them is horrible.

 

The ability to copy/paste material across fields and files would be really useful. So would being able to override an item's default basic value (something KT doesn't allow, meaning .gff editing the thing).

 

Er. Some kind of internal project tracker/manager might be good, though I have no idea what it would look like beyond containing a changelog for the project. Maybe an automatic changes.ini generator?

Totally doable, as far as the GUI Editor. As to the Project Change-log... That one could be a bit of work. Tracking all of the changes themselves wouldn't be too hard, but putting it into a comprehensive format... I'll think about that one.

 

I am a modder of limited scope but one feature that I think would be a big deal for me would be an integrated way of managing which files are included in your mod. Basically I've been working with Kotor Tool and TSLPatcher. I think it would be really powerful to combine the two into an 'IDE' of sorts that also adds some help with file management.

 

Going with that, it might be nice to integrate the logic used by TSLPatcher into the appropriate editors and project manager. So basically, you would be able to specify TSLPatcher operations within the editor. I could live without it though.

 

One thing I really like about TSLPatcher is that your whole 'project' is stored as a plain text which makes large-scale changes very quick using regular expressions or simple parsing programs.

 

I can go in more depth with stuff or list more ideas later if you want.

See above.

 

TSLPatcher has some ridiculous limitations, too, though.

 

Anyway - to business: a visual view of the .lyt-file, so you could not only see what pieces form the module, but also be able to see which room actually is where (like a map view with room labels).

LYT-Viewer totally doable. I'll combine that with a VIS-Maker.

[Rece 63]

Well, number one of course that you know would come from me is to make it compatible with the Mac because it's a pain to get PC tools working for the Mac haha. So far, I've gotten: Kotor Tool, GFF editor, and MDLOPS to work (At least from what I've tried) I haven't tried anything like dlg editor or anything like that (tools on the KFiles website)

[Darth_Sapiens 90]

A good idea would be to look at the aurora toolset, seeing as it is probably the closest thing to what Bioware/Obsidian used with KotOR - it's for NWN though.

[forgetcanon 8]

An easy way to see what textures, models, etc. are attached to an item. (For example, instead of needing to solve a freaking puzzle to figure out what texture goes to a robe, the tool tells you it's PFIXX.)

[Rece 63]

I think it'd also be cool to have something that shows you what your new item/robe thing would look like in-game without having to launch the game. But I guess that would entitle it to something similar to gmax or something (although I haven't gotten that to work yet) So I guess that's out of the question :/

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I think it'd also be cool to have something that shows you what your new item/robe thing would look like in-game without having to launch the game. But I guess that would entitle it to something similar to gmax or something (although I haven't gotten that to work yet) So I guess that's out of the question :/

 

Yeah, better left to gmax - although to do that sort of thing, Unity might be a viable route to take.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I just read about this, but apparently, There is something called the Electron Toolset which is used for NWN2 modding. Developed by Obsidian, even. Has anyone tried using the tool to work with TSL assets?

[redrob41 86]

The most useful thing for me would be the solution to bump maps and maintaining edge smoothing in models. That'll always be on the top of my wish list.

 

Next though, would be a tool similar in function to Taina's Replacer, but that it works for bone weights. Right now, Taina's compares the ascii model spit out from KotorTool vs an ascii model exported from Max. Then it changes the original binary mdl and mdx based on the differences it finds between the ascii files. From what I know, it really only makes changes to the mdl file, since that is where the mesh vertexes and uv data are stored. Bone weights, however, are stored in the mdx. I've been able to fix some to a fair degree, but I've done this by manually comparing the mdx files.

 

This was my process:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2845204&postcount=16

If you can make a tool that would do that for me automatically, that would save me all kinds of time

[Xedii 17]

The ability to edit level in realtime.....Now this would have to work by mdl file so you would load an level...add models, new plc files make changes then save it back as mdl and put it in the override..

 

Ive always wanted the ability to move plc or any add new plc models to a new location or put up a new sign somewhere...i know some of it is possible because of the model viewer that was made...i have the ideas but not the ability...thats my suggestion

 

The old mapmaker is to obsolete needs a new one.

[LiliArch 115]

The ability to edit level in realtime.....Now this would have to work by mdl file so you would load an level...add models, new plc files make changes then save it back as mdl and put it in the override..

 

Ive always wanted the ability to move plc or any add new plc models to a new location or put up a new sign somewhere...i know some of it is possible because of the model viewer that was made...i have the ideas but not the ability...thats my suggestion

Remember that mdl is not the module, it is the model. You can't add placeables to mdl. If you do, they're not placeables, they're model edits.

[Fair Strides 509]

Remember that mdl is not the module, it is the model. You can't add placeables to mdl. If you do, they're not placeables, they're model edits.

 

That... and I said no 3D Stuff in the opening post, so Xedii is already out on that.

[Xedii 17]

That... and I said no 3D Stuff in the opening post, so Xedii is already out on that.

my fault then miss it carry on......

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

my fault then miss it carry on......

It's still worth a consideration at some point. Ideally (and this is FAR OFF in the future), I want to make a level editor with Unity where you would be able to add placeables and waypoints and all the sort.

 

Disclaimer: I have no idea how to do it yet, or if it's even possible.

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 98]

The only thing currently out of the question is 3D-Rendering, such as a Model Viewer and all that that entails (You'll still have to use GMax or 3DSMax for your modelling...)

 

You really should consider moving away from Perl, even if it is to something like Python. You would at least be able to do "3D" stuff that way I'd imagine; but honestly, you should take a good look at C#. Even if it is just playing around in Unity with it's version of C#.

 

Anyway, I say it as any "future" TSL modding will be reliant on better 3D tools -- exporting and viewing of.

 

EDIT: didn't you get C# source code for one of the model viewers floating around?

 

It's still worth a consideration at some point. Ideally (and this is FAR OFF in the future), I want to make a level editor with Unity where you would be able to add placeables and waypoints and all the sort.

 

Disclaimer: I have no idea how to do it yet, or if it's even possible.

 

That's interesting. You would need to do it will the full version as it will require specialised tools, like an importer/exporter for Unity -- that would require engine source-code assess. Would have been a problem to do with the free version, but now you should be able to score a pro license for cheap / free. Big shake-up with game dev middleware due to Epic making Unreal 4 pretty much free to develop with -- still royalties required for anything commercial. For those who don't venture that far beyond KoTOR/TSL modding

[LiliArch 115]

You really should consider moving away from Perl, even if it is to something like Python. You would at least be able to do "3D" stuff that way I'd imagine; but honestly, you should take a good look at C#. Even if it is just playing around in Unity with it's version of C#.

 

Anyway, I say it as any "future" TSL modding will be reliant on better 3D tools -- exporting and viewing of.

PERL's way much more cross-platform compatible, though. You wouldn't believe how hard it was to get .NET 4.0 (or was it 4.1?) installed on my computer.

[djnugent 34]

An easy way to see what textures, models, etc. are attached to an item. (For example, instead of needing to solve a freaking puzzle to figure out what texture goes to a robe, the tool tells you it's PFIXX.)

 

I concur - it took me over 30 minutes to figure out which texture a robe was using, only to re-texture, copy to override, and find out I was retexturing the wrong damn robe... grrrr

 

It's almost easier to just create a new one sometimes...

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I concur - it took me over 30 minutes to figure out which texture a robe was using, only to re-texture, copy to override, and find out I was retexturing the wrong damn robe... grrrr

 

It's almost easier to just create a new one sometimes...

What texture were you looking for? They're usually quite easy to find.

[djnugent 34]

What texture were you looking for? They're usually quite easy to find.

 

Now I feel stupid...

 

I was using these forums/guides to find it:

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=144809 

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/info/ArmorSkinning_expand 

 

I don't remember what specific robe I was looking for, something my character was wearing that I thought would look cool with a couple of tweaks.

 

Is there an easier guide? I thought I had a handle on nomenclature, but obviously not so much the case. PC nomenclature ended up being pretty easy.