Janice Nall "Legends" and the Incomplete Droids
 
© BioWare & LucasArts
Credit DarthParametric SpaceAlex ROTNR Fred Tetra bead-v Werner Rumpeltesz ndix UR
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Janice Nall "Legends" and the Incomplete Droids

ebmar

"Don't forget my store motto: if you need droid parts, Janice Nall is your gal!"

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Credit

DarthParametric SpaceAlex ROTNR Fred Tetra bead-v Werner Rumpeltesz ndix UR

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© BioWare & LucasArts
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5 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

Looks Janice has some neck clipping there, Padawan.

I know, Master. And I try to be cool with that. 🤣

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11 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

Tsk, tsk. Acceptance is for losers! Get to vert tweaking.

Ah, you're right. I just get to see it in-game again and I think it'd be nice to have this tiny yellow dot removed. 🤬

By any chance could you describe what needs to be addressed for the clip to be removed? Many thanks for considering this. :cheers:

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You have two options.

Presumably this is already a custom head you have added to heads.2da, so the logical approach is to load the head model into Max/GMax and adjust the vert positions in that area of the neck to move them back half 5-10mm, enough so they no longer clip through the collar.

The second option is to create a custom version of the armour model (since again I assume she has a custom row in appearance.2da) and adjust the position of the verts on the collar, pulling them out a bit.

Either would be a valid approach, but editing the head is the one I would suggest.

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44 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

Presumably this is already a custom head you have added to heads.2da...

Yes, I'm using custom head on this attempt.

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...editing the head is the one I would suggest.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'm going with the head tweak by the way, so-

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...so the logical approach is to load the head model into Max/GMax and adjust the vert positions in that area of the neck to move them back half 5-10mm, enough so they no longer clip through the collar.

I was stoked to see the clips removed from the front neck but soon as the camera moved to the back; well-

JNall_NckClps.jpg.e8b75734c8ec40e6cf20917128b242c5.jpg

Any chance to workaround this issue? Would it be possible to just shrink her neck as an alternative? 🤔

Edited by ebmar

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Actually, looking at the body model, it seems like the collar on that is the issue. At least on the one I am looking at. What's the specific body model you are using? PFBG?

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38 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

Actually, looking at the body model, it seems like the collar on that is the issue.

I have things to report; I'm compiling the information right now. :cheers:

Update: Greetings, @DarthParametric. It seems the "issue" was because of this part of the neck:

JNall_VrtClp_WrkArnd.jpg.772071137592504b0f70651aace4f8c6.jpg

So, I decided to delete that part and having the intended result:

JNall_VrTwk_Rslt.jpg.71d4a787415ce0377d3f615414a0534b.jpg

Although, at some point when she moves her head around I'm still getting this clipping from the back of her neck:

JNall_VrTwk_Rslt_Mvng.jpg.946a709736f42662020d0f722c484f09.jpg

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What's the specific body model you are using? PFBG?

It's PFBF model; the S variant in particular.

and again, quoting yours-

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...it seems like the collar on that is the issue.

Yeah, the rigid nature of the collar makes the clipping around the back part seems unavoidable, it seems. 🤔

Though, I am pleased to reach to this point of the clip-fix; many thanks for the heavy assistance particularly on this area:

1 hour ago, DarthParametric said:

Try something like this:

Twilek_Neck_Vert_Adjust_TH.gif

As without it; I totally have no idea of what I'm doing [I was moving back-and-forth the necklwr_g those time around]. :cheers:

Edited by ebmar

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I see you have released your mod. A note for future endeavours: as a general rule you never want to touch the bottom row of neck verts on a head, as they are positioned so that they properly mate with bodies that don't have a hidden join. If you give that head a different body, like clothes or a robe, you'll see a massive gap at the front now because of the change you made to the position of that front vert. It's not a problem in this case, but something to bear in mind for player heads especially.

As I said above, this looks like an issue with the body model, with the way the collar verts on the front part come in too far, Presumably this is also a problem with other heads. It may warrant a more general fix.

Regarding the clipping at the back, that is presumably because the collar on the body is weighted entirely to torsoupr_g, while that area of the neck on the head has a reasonable amount of influence from neck_g. This is again something that could possibly be a more general problem, or maybe it only affects Twi'lek female heads, since they were never intended to be used on other bodies. The solution would likely again be to edit the body model, this time adjusting the skin weights of the collar. This may necessitate adding bones to the rig, as body models typically stop at torsoupr_g and don't have the neck_g bone. Alternatively, the head could be edited to set the weights on that area of the neck to necklwr_g (which is functionally identical to torsoupr_g). Either way should stop the clipping.

Edit: Here's Mission demonstrating that the problem is at least partially with the amour models:

K1_Female_Armour_Neck_Clipping_Mission_T

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ebmar

Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, DarthParametric said:

I see you have released your mod.

Hahah, yeah- it was one click away from a release and I thought fixes can came along as further update goes.

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A note for future endeavours: as a general rule you never want to touch the bottom row of neck verts on a head, as they are positioned so that they properly mate with bodies that don't have a hidden join. If you give that head a different body, like clothes or a robe, you'll see a massive gap at the front now because of the change you made to the position of that front vert. It's not a problem in this case, but something to bear in mind for player heads especially.

Thank you for the insight! I am aware of the impact but looking by the general usage of this mod I was confident it wasn't game breaking and such; still I'm looking to have an appropriate fix for this issue.

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As I said above, this looks like an issue with the body model, with the way the collar verts on the front part come in too far, Presumably this is also a problem with other heads. It may warrant a more general fix.

Yes! A more general fix for PFBF and PMBF model would be awesome!

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Regarding the clipping at the back, that is presumably because the collar on the body is weighted entirely to torsoupr_g, while that area of the neck on the head has a reasonable amount of influence from neck_g. This is again something that could possibly be a more general problem, or maybe it only affects Twi'lek female heads, since they were never intended to be used on other bodies. The solution would likely again be to edit the body model, this time adjusting the skin weights of the collar. This may necessitate adding bones to the rig, as body models typically stop at torsoupr_g and don't have the neck_g bone. Alternatively, the head could be edited to set the weights on that area of the neck to necklwr_g (which is functionally identical to torsoupr_g). Either way should stop the clipping.

I'm considering opening a new thread here for further discussion on this topic; if you don't mind. :cheers:

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Edit: Here's Mission demonstrating that the problem is at least partially with the amour models:

K1_Female_Armour_Neck_Clipping_Mission_T

Ooops, soon as I zoomed in I'm finally get the meaning now. Yeah, the problem definitely is partially within the armour models. Hope you can chime in on the thread that I'm looking to open for discussion.

Edited by ebmar

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I've uploaded a fix, at least for the female body models (not sure if males also need a fix). Just needs a kindly admin/mod to approve it.

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16 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

I've uploaded a fix, at least for the female body models...

Awesome! Thank you for submitting the fix. :cheers:

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...(not sure if males also need a fix).

Ah yeah- you're right. I have just checked and they don't need a fix as they seems to have the collar properly motioned with the neck. 🤔

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The PMBH models do (as do the G models for both sexes), but the PMBF models don't have any neck weights, just like the female F/H models. However I did a quick in-game test with PMBFS (small seems to have the worst clipping problems for females) and I didn't see any problems, and I haven't seen any on the large model either, so it seems they are probably ok.

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