Kill the Ithorian mod

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Kill the Ithorian Mod Download, Knights of the Old Republic 2 Mods

 

This is by "Deadly Stream", which is the same as this forum is called. What exactly does that mean? Is that someone separate from Zbyl and Stoney, and is that person around here?

 

Just looking whom to provide feedback to, as it'd be nice to get a version of that mod that does not provide an infinite experience exploit...

 

EDIT: sorry, should have posted in General. Don't see a delete button...

Edited August 19, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Hassat Hunter 571]

It's probably by Stream, the admin (now called "Doctor").

 

EDIT:

Now that the page finally loaded I can confirm that it's indeed Stream, it mentions so under author.

And I doubt the mod is compatible with 1.6a, since I made some hefty modifications (read: fixes) to that console.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Hassat Hunter

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Uhm. What did you do with it? I have the mod installed. If I remove it, how far do I need to go back to experience your version? (I make unique saves all the time so that won't be a problem).

[Hassat Hunter 571]

From the top of my head:

 

* You weren't supposed to be able to interact with it with Loppak alive, but that was broken. Fixed that.

* The repair skill check was broken, fixed that.

* You can no longer infinitely release the Ithorian, and added a LS gain for doing so.

 

That's all IIRC.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

So to be sure I understand: if I make a deal with Lopak, I can't release the Ithorian?

 

Even though the deal is, precisely, about leaving Ithorians alone...

 

And how far do I need to go back after removing Stream's mod?

 

EDIT: OK, I had a save right before entering the Bumani area and that did the trick, after removing the mod files.

 

Yeah I'm a little disappointed that, after resolving everything peacefully, the captured Ithorian (whom they haven't fed etc) remains in the force cage...

 

This is NOT an improvement over the vanilla game.

 

Also, I miss the DS option to kill the Ithorian, but this is by the way.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Well, that's the way OE intended it... it just wasn't working due to a bug.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Uhm... so?

 

Just because OE never got to polishing this off doesn't mean we know for sure they meant it to be illogical like this. But even if, would that mean you have to blindly reimplement it no matter how little sense it made?

 

I'd also like to point out that any benefit to suspension of disbelief is void because you can still loot his containers right next to the terminal. Not to mention there is that rather jarring captured Ithorian, whom you'd promised you'd look for a way to free him, still standing around in the cage... even though Slusk agreed to leave Ithorians alone...

 

I don't know. Am I the only one whom this bothers at all?

[Hassat Hunter 571]

For some reason your reply never appeared in "new posts" so apologies for the late reply.

 

It was definitely a bug, not something they changed. How I know? Because the issue fixed was that they typo'ed the required global flag .

[Doctor 60]

How I know? Because the issue fixed was that they typo'ed the required global flag .

 

The clumsy pratts.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

See the rest of my last post, then, after the "even if".

 

I mean, I suspected as much, about there just being unfinished code of some sort. But by "never got to polishing it off" I meant they didn't fix it, didn't get to see how it works and thus didn't have a chance to smack themselves in the forehead from realizing it makes the story have no sense.

 

So again, why are you somehow obliged to "fix" it? It doesn't really "restore content" so one would think you can use discretion.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Because it was broken, OE's intention, and it makes sense to me. Restoration Project, see?

If it was looking like they deliberately removed it, then yes, I would consider wheter or not it would fit. But this wasn't deliberately removed, just an oversight.

As for "never got to polishing it off" this game got rushed out, remember? If they can't fix gamebreaking bugs, do you really think they would prioritize here?

 

I could tweak up what you want in less than 5 minutes, but that would then be a mod, so wouldn't be part of TSLCRM (but would work with it). Want that? I could post it to Kotorfiles, then you can recommend it to everyone else who thinks OE dropped ball here .

[ExMachina 10]

I agree with Markus Ramikin here, it doesn't make sense to make a deal to "leave the Ithorians alone," yet an Ithorian continues to be left starving in a force cage afterwards. If anything he should be released automatically as part of the deal.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

As for "never got to polishing it off" this game got rushed out, remember? If they can't fix gamebreaking bugs, do you really think they would prioritize here?

Hm, I don't understand your point here. I know all those things, and they are part of what I'm saying.

 

Obsidian was busy trying to get the essential parts of the game finished, and they never finished working on this, rather minor, element. This means nobody ever playtested this part with the terminal inaccessible due to Slusk being alive.

 

Which in turn means they never got a chance to hear from a playtester "hey wait a minute, this don't make sense...".

 

My point being: if they had all the time they needed to ship out a perfect game, you don't know what the end result would be, because chances are they'd not leave it the way you made it. Yes, we can deduce what their next step in developing this element of the game would have been. But we can't know that it would be their final step. We can't know that this was what OE really would have "intended" had they had all the time they wanted: not just time to finish coding, but also for testing and evaluation.

 

That's why I think you should use some discretion and some basic sanity checks ("does this lead to mind-boggling plot holes?") rather than restore everything blindly. Just because something can be restored doesn't automatically mean it should be.

 

I could tweak up what you want in less than 5 minutes, but that would then be a mod, so wouldn't be part of TSLCRM (but would work with it). Want that? I could post it to Kotorfiles, then you can recommend it to everyone else who thinks OE dropped ball here .

 

No thanks. If I just wanted to be personally pleased for my own playthroughs, I'd just stick to the existing Kill the Ithorian mod. I have the restraint not to abuse the infinite exp bug in it, and it also gives me the Darkside option which I like.

 

The reason I'm posting this here is quite different. It is because, like you, I want to help improve TSLCRM. I like it, I think it's a great project and although I'm not one of the authors or "officially" involved, I've come to identify it to some extent. Hence I argue against what I think is a bad part of it. Sorry if it comes across the wrong way.

 

I'm gonna stop arguing about this now. But I'd be interested what other people on this forum think. ExMachina already proved I'm not the only one who thinks the story makes less sense this way.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Here's the dialogue:

 

"I want the Exchange to stop meddling in the Ithorians' restoration effort."

"Why would I want to do that? The Ithorians are ruining my profits."

"Because I asked you to?"

"Come now, surely you can do better than that? The Exchange isn't trifled with lightly."

"Better? Look around, you saw what I did here."

"I suppose you do make a bit of sense there. Fine, I will allow the Ithorians to do their business, but listen to me when I say this."

"The Exchange is not bullied. If you push, expect to be pushed back."

 

It doesn't really specify leaving the Ithorians completely alone, just not interfere in their business on the restoration project. And he is a crimeboss.

Like I said, it does make sense to me, and it was OE's intend to boot...

 

But I would be willing to hear from more users what they think...

EDIT: It would make sense for the exile to card the Ithorian on while doing this deal (and have a persuasion check to check the result), but sadly, there is no content for that, so no part of the TSLRCM.

But if you want, like I said, I could wip up a mod that does that in about 5 min or so...

Edited August 21, 2010 by Hassat Hunter

[e-varmint 10]

...I would be willing to hear from more users what they think...

 

From the TSLRCM perspective, you have to go with the best available information regarding the original intent of OE. If they wanted the Ithorian left in the cage, so be it. They cut a whole bunch of other "dark" content, and this seems to be in line with the original atmosphere that they were trying to create.

[bead-v 251]

Well, if you want to keep everything restored and make it more logical, you can add a node for asking Slusk to let him go... although from one perspective, if Slusk agrees to stop messing with the Ithorians, it can be assumed he'll let that Ithorian go, so you just remove him from the cage.. but it's your decision in the end, I guess..

 

But I really can't see the exile doing nothing about that Ithorian and leaving him there, even more so because he convinced Slusk to leave them alone (LS).

Edited August 21, 2010 by bead-v
Slusk, NOT Visquis

[VarsityPuppet 1,084]

Obsidian was busy trying to get the essential parts of the game finished, and they never finished working on this, rather minor, element. This means nobody ever playtested this part with the terminal inaccessible due to Slusk being alive.

 

Which in turn means they never got a chance to hear from a playtester "hey wait a minute, this don't make sense...".

 

You can't possibly know that for sure. All we can deduce is that they used a wrong global here.

 

We can't know that this was what OE really would have "intended" had they had all the time they wanted: not just time to finish coding, but also for testing and evaluation.

 

Which is why we try to do our best to restore things in the best way we can. Of course, we don't get it perfect every time, or for that matter, ever.

 

That's why I think you should use some discretion and some basic sanity checks ("does this lead to mind-boggling plot holes?") rather than restore everything blindly. Just because something can be restored doesn't automatically mean it should be.

 

Depends on what you mean by, "Can be restored". Gaming-wise, I can perfectly understand why Loppak would not let you use the computer with him well and alive, even if he leaves the caged ithorian. I don't take Slusk to be one who holds to his promises...

 

 

 

No thanks. If I just wanted to be personally pleased for my own playthroughs, I'd just stick to the existing Kill the Ithorian mod. I have the restraint not to abuse the infinite exp bug in it, and it also gives me the Darkside option which I like.

 

Infinite Hssiss ftw!

 

I'm gonna stop arguing about this now. But I'd be interested what other people on this forum think. ExMachina already proved I'm not the only one who thinks the story makes less sense this way.

 

Here's what I think:

 

Coming from a modder who likes to 'make content' to supplement TSLRCM, here's what I would propose:

 

1 - Be able to kill the ithorian - Because if you can, why not?

2 - Be locked out from the computer - A crimeboss lets you just peruse his computer? I don't think so.

3 - Ask him to leave the ithorians alone - there should be a follow up to that line to make sure our little buddy is released.

 

Be advised that I don't care so much for OE's original intent behind certain things. The way I see it, things are missing anyways, but instead of cutting back, I like to add.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Anyway. So Stream, the author of this mod, is our Doctor? Doctor, if you're reading this, any chance you could release a fixed version that does not grant an infinite XP/LS/DS points exploit?

 

Also, is this the same person as the Stream guy listed here?