Star Wars Episode VII Discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

[Doctor Evil 51]

You have got to be trolling here.

 

The prequels aren't hated because they were different. They were just badly made movies. I'm currently rewatching all of the movies with my girlfriend an the prequels are just a bore after the OT. Has nothing to do with being different, but everything to with their quality. 

 

Politics can be exciting (House of Cards, Game of Thrones), but Lucas decided to focus on it in the prequels and just didn't cut it.

 

And for the record: I do not hate the prequel trilogy, not at all! I just acknowledge that they have flaws and aren't as good as the Original Trilogy (though III and VI are on the same level sometimes).

 

This post also summizes my thoughts, but I can tell you that there are people who hate any Star Wars that isn't like the originals

[zbyl2 811]

the prequels werent that bad... EP 2 was by far the worst, but ep. 1 and 3 are good movies... If you watch ANH without the nostalgia glasses on, it is actually a bad movie (Ep. 4 also has the same issues people like to point out in ep. 1 to a worse degree) and hard to enjoy the film for the first hour (who cares about lukes farming duties, or the jawa selling them droids, and that first scene with Ben Kenobi and the tusken raiders has always been utterly stupid no matter what version you watch) , its not until they get to the death star that the movie actually gets interesting (Hence why I rank Ep. 4 so low)

 

So are you telling me that opening of TPM, where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon talk politics with computer generated creatures is just as exciting as the assault on the Rebel spaceship in the opening of Episode IV?

 

Walking around Tatooine with 9-years-old kid is as fun to watch as learning about the ways of the Jedi with Obi-Wan?

 

Or maybe it's the other way around, and being captured by the Death Star is just as boring as the pod race?

 

Tell me what issues people have with Ep1 that are even worse with Ep4. Those movies can't even compare in their quality. One is an exciting adventure with likable characters, the other is filled with boring politics and people standing around. Darth Jar Jar theory doesn't save it at all, because that's all it is, a theory.

And that's Episode I, which isn't even the worst of the prequels.

[Doctor Evil 51]

I agree completely, TFA was essentially JJ and Disney trying to please all the OT fanboys. It was a good movie, but the plot just takes the shine away from the movie. The whole super weapon thing is really starting to get old IMO (and why would the first order make a weapon more vulnerable than the death star that can only be used twice, thats hardly threatening) and has been used one to many times. But its not just that, even alot the new characters in this movie feel like they are from the EU (Lets face it, Ben solo is similar to Ben skywalker (just different parents))...

 

So you're saying they're similar characters just because they share the name? I haven't read EU heavily, but from what I know Jacen is more akin to Kylo Renn than Ben Skywalker is... do your homework.

 

And once again, you're letting a lack of originality ruin your experience, so why didn't it ruin your experience with ROTJ when that was focused around a superweapon?

 

Such contradictions

 

EDIT: If anything, using the elements of the EU is great because there were some good parts of it, and Disney said that they would re-incarnate the good parts of EU

[Haveayap 127]

So are you telling me that opening of TPM, where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon talk politics with computer generated creatures is just as exciting as the assault on the Rebel spaceship in the opening of Episode IV?

 

Walking around Tatooine with 9-years-old kid is as fun to watch as learning about the ways of the Jedi with Obi-Wan?

 

Or maybe it's the other way around, and being captured by the Death Star is just as boring as the pod race?

 

Tell me what issues people have with Ep1 that are even worse with Ep4. Those movies can't even compare in their quality. One is an exciting adventure with likable characters, the other is filled with boring politics and people standing around. Darth Jar Jar theory doesn't save it at all, because that's all it is, a theory.

And that's Episode I, which isn't even the worst of the prequels.

 

Oh please, everything before the death star in ANH was boring, the battle scene (although interesting, decided to focus more on C3-PO bad comedic act and R2-D2 escape), and most of the scenes on Tatooine are bland and boring. Instead of getting to see the storm troopers (and fett) in action, we get to hear about an old man rave on about how he knew Lukes father and was a jedi once. The acting was avg at best (Mark Hammils acting in ANH was not great). If it wasnt for the introduction of the death star and the rebellion at the end of this film (which shouldnt even have been in the film as the last battle had very little to do with the actual plot, which isnt actually explained to well either. Was the plot about saving Leia? Or teaching Luke about the force? Or destroying the death star? Or even Luke getting away from tatooine... And this is one issue most people have with EP. 1), Id go as far as to say it would have one of the worst SW movies out of the 6.

[1Leonard 134]

the prequels werent that bad... EP 2 was by far the worst, but ep. 1 and 3 are good movies... If you watch ANH without the nostalgia glasses on, it is actually a bad movie (Ep. 4 also has the same issues people like to point out in ep. 1 to a worse degree) and hard to enjoy the film for the first hour (who cares about lukes farming duties, or the jawa selling them droids, and that first scene with Ben Kenobi and the tusken raiders has always been utterly stupid no matter what version you watch) , its not until they get to the death star that the movie actually gets interesting (Hence why I rank Ep. 4 so low)

Come on now, you can't be serious. Just compare these intro's:

 

IV: In one shot you immediately see who the bad guys are, and who the underdogs are. You see a huge imposing guy with a mask command an army of faceless soldiers in white armor who attack a small fleet of people, you see people getting shot. You get to meet a woman and through her interaction with the huge imposing guy you get to find out what their names are and the relationship between them and their respective factions is reinforced. Meanwhile two very distinct robots get shot to a planet below, carrying very important data the woman gave them. 

 

I: Two nameless guys in robes enter a donutshaped ship and get to sit at a table and drink some tea. They talk about trade routes and having a bad feeling. Some aliens talk with each other and a hologram, say that the nameless guys are a threat and decide to gas them. The two guys see some gas coming in and immediately pull out their lightsabers. They're jedi, I guess? One of the guys in robes smells the gas (and doesn't die because reasons), knows what gas it is and tells the other guy. They both take a huge breath (script forgot about the gas in the room lol) and hold it for a couple of minutes. 

 

The aliens command some droids to check on them, and destroy what's left of them (... what?) instead of just waiting it out. The door opens and the two guys slice through the droids like butter. They're clearly not a challenge for them, at all, which doesn't make for a lot of tension. Some other droids come rolling in because of course this is a videogame and we can't forget level 2! The two guys decide to run for it using an ability which makes them extremely fast, which they apparently can do.

 

^{_{Gee, I wonder if such an ability could come in handy later? Perhaps in the end? You know, maybe when they have to run faster than some energy shiels which turn on and off at set times?}}

 

Anyways, the two guys sneak onboard some ships of the droids which'll be used to infiltrate the planet below. They tell each other they have to warn the Naboo (whatever that is). The ships then fly to the planet and land on the other side of the planet.

 

Remember, the quickest way to Da Naboo is through da planet core. What kind of a plan is that?! If you want to take over a city you just take them by surprise, you don't announce your arrival by landing as far as you can from the place you want to take over. This gives the city the maximum amount of time to prepare.

 

 

Exactly what issues people have with episode I are even worse in Episode IV?

[Doctor Evil 51]

Oh please, everything before the death star in ANH was boring, the battle scene (although interesting, decided to focus more on C3-PO bad comedic act and R2-D2 escape), and most of the scenes on Tatooine are bland and boring. Instead of getting to see the storm troopers (and fett) in action, we get to hear about an old man rave on about how he knew Lukes father and was a jedi once. The acting was avg at best (Mark Hammils acting in ANH was not great). If it wasnt for the introduction of the death star and the rebellion at the end of this film (which shouldnt even have been in the film as the last battle had very little to do with the actual plot, which isnt actually explained to well either. Was the plot about saving Leia? Or teaching Luke about the force? Or destroying the death star? Or even Luke getting away from tatooine... And this is one issue most people have with EP. 1), Id go as far as to say it would have one of the worst SW movies out of the 6.

 

I see what you did there... stealing my mojo.

 

You seem to flip flop between opinions faster than Kim Kardashian changes clothes. You originally said Episode 4 was good by lopping it in the same category as 3 which you said you liked a lot, and now you're saying it's not? Make up your mind about the movies for crying out loud and create a solid argument for your point... this just seems like pointless rambling by someone who's trying to sound like a non-conformist (no offense).

 

And Leonard once again pretty much said what needed to be said there, not much else I can say on my end

[zbyl2 811]

Oh please, everything before the death star in ANH was boring, the battle scene (although interesting, decided to focus more on C3-PO bad comedic act and R2-D2 escape), and most of the scenes on Tatooine are bland and boring. Instead of getting to see the storm troopers (and fett) in action, we get to hear about an old man rave on about how he knew Lukes father and was a jedi once. The acting was avg at best (Mark Hammils acting in ANH was not great). If it wasnt for the introduction of the death star and the rebellion at the end of this film (which shouldnt even have been in the film as the last battle had very little to do with the actual plot, which isnt actually explained to well either. Was the plot about saving Leia? Or teaching Luke about the force? Or destroying the death star? Or even Luke getting away from tatooine... And this is one issue most people have with EP. 1), Id go as far as to say it would have one of the worst SW movies out of the 6.

 

All right, I can see how someone who doesn't even like Star Wars compares Episode 1 to 4.

 

And the story was about Luke, regular farmer becoming the hero of the Rebellion. It's very simple, very effective, and requires effort not to understand.

The Phantom Menace is about... invasion of Naboo, I guess. One that Senate doesn't believe is happening.

 

And that's just on story level. I'm not even going to go into what a huge difference there is between using actual sets and props as opposed to filming everything in front of a blue screen, resulting in movie looking plastic and fake.

[Haveayap 127]

I see what you did there... stealing my mojo.

 

You seem to flip flop between opinions faster than Kim Kardashian changes clothes. You originally said Episode 4 was good by lopping it in the same category as 3 which you said you liked a lot, and now you're saying it's not? Make up your mind about the movies for crying out loud and create a solid argument for your point... this just seems like pointless rambling by someone who's trying to sound like a non-conformist (no offense).

 

And Leonard once again pretty much said what needed to be said there, not much else I can say on my end

I am being harsh as I do like the movie (Probably more due to the nostalgia of it being the first SW movie), but it isnt my favorite one and it does have alot of issues with it that 90% of SW fans either fail to recognize or pretend they are not their

[1Leonard 134]

I am being harsh as I do like the movie (Probably more due to the nostalgia of it being the first SW movie), but it isnt my favorite one and it does have alot of issues with it that 90% of SW fans either fail to recognize or pretend they are not their

Like what? You haven't given any concrete examples of those issues, you have said that the first hour is boring, which:

- is entirely subjective

- I don't believe is true as the intro of IV is much better and more exciting than I, as illustrated by my previous post.

 

Could you please give me some reasons and arguments about why you think IV is so bad?

 

Just use a template for your argument or something:

 

 

 

Episode IV isn't as good because:

Reason 1, argument, example

Reason 2, argument, example

Reason 3, argument, example

 

 

[Domino5555 119]

So are you telling me that opening of TPM, where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon talk politics with computer generated creatures is just as exciting as the assault on the Rebel spaceship in the opening of Episode IV?

 

Walking around Tatooine with 9-years-old kid is as fun to watch as learning about the ways of the Jedi with Obi-Wan?

 

Or maybe it's the other way around, and being captured by the Death Star is just as boring as the pod race?

 

Tell me what issues people have with Ep1 that are even worse with Ep4. Those movies can't even compare in their quality. One is an exciting adventure with likable characters, the other is filled with boring politics and people standing around. Darth Jar Jar theory doesn't save it at all, because that's all it is, a theory.

And that's Episode I, which isn't even the worst of the prequels.

Which aliens are you talking about? If you're referring to the Trade Federation, you should check your facts, man. Those were actually real actors wearing costumes and makeup.

[Doctor Evil 51]

I am being harsh as I do like the movie (Probably more due to the nostalgia of it being the first SW movie), but it isnt my favorite one and it does have alot of issues with it that 90% of SW fans either fail to recognize or pretend they are not their

 

From what we're seeing, you're being critical for the sake of being critical as you were with TFA. If you could actually cite some concrete examples of why you think ANH is an inferior movie to the others then maybe we'd take this more seriously, because all of what you're citing is opinionated.

[1Leonard 134]

Which aliens are you talking about? If you're referring to the Trade Federation, you should check your facts, man. Those were actually real actors wearing costumes and makeup.

That's not in the least bit relevant, what's relevant is that we saw people/things we did not know talk about things we cared nothing about. 

 

Do you honestly think episode I's intro is as exciting as IV's?

[Doctor Evil 51]

That's not in the least bit relevant, what's relevant is that we saw people/things we did not know talk about things we cared nothing about. 

 

Do you honestly think episode I's intro is as exciting as IV's?

 

To be fair, it's not an action intro like Episode IV is, you could say the intro is more akin to Return of the Jedi's style intro

[Domino5555 119]

That's not in the least bit relevant, what's relevant is that we saw people/things we did not know talk about things we cared nothing about. 

 

Do you honestly think episode I's intro is as exciting as IV's?

I was just informing him that the Neimoidians weren't CGI.

[milestails 264]

Very sprightly discussion here!

 

The TIE fighter seating two caught my eye as well. They must have expanded the cockpit space to increase its rear defenses.

 

Or they did it to get both Finn and Poe off the ship.....

[1Leonard 134]

To be fair, it's not an action intro like Episode IV is, you could say the intro is more akin to Return of the Jedi's style intro

By the time of ROTJ we are fully engaged with the characters and are familiar with their motivations. For Episode I's intro to work we would have needed a bit more time with the characters to get to know them before they start talking politics. At least explain to the audience why they should care about the trade federation blockade. 

 

I was just informing him that the Neimoidians weren't CGI.

 

You're talking about small details, semantics. Instead of engaging other people's arguments and explaining why they're wrong, your just stating that they're wrong as if it's fact. You're arguing like a fourteen year old would. 

[Domino5555 119]

By the time of ROTJ we are fully engaged with the characters and are familiar with their motivations. For Episode I's intro to work we would have needed a bit more time with the characters to get to know them before they start talking politics. At least explain to the audience why they should care about the trade federation blockade. 

 

 

 

You're talking about small details, semantics. Instead of engaging other people's arguments and explaining why they're wrong, your just stating that they're wrong as if it's fact. You're arguing like a fourteen year old would.

 

1. I'm a fifteen-year old.

2. We have opening crawls for exposition.

3. I was merely stating facts instead of an opinion.

[Haveayap 127]

From what we're seeing, you're being critical for the sake of being critical as you were with TFA. If you could actually cite some concrete examples of why you think ANH is an inferior movie to the others then maybe we'd take this more seriously, because all of what you're citing is opinionated.

not everyone agrees with my opinion on ANH (I think I have already expressed some of the issues I have with Ep. 4, its obvious no one else agrees with me so Ill leave it at that), but I think most people agree with me about TFA... 

[milestails 264]

We should have a poll in this thread to see where people fall on the spectrum.

[1Leonard 134]

1. I'm a fifteen-year old.

2. We have opening crawls for exposition.

3. I was merely stating facts instead of an opinion.

 

1. Start acting like one, motivate your arguments, please.

2. Movies are a visual medium, IV has an opening crawl as well, but it's merely there to support the movie, it's not exactly necessary exposition as you can make out what happens in the movie perfectly well without it.

In I you're lost without the opening crawl, and even then it brings up more questions than it answers.

3. Facts mean nothing if you don't motivate why you're using them.

[zbyl2 811]

In I you're lost without the opening crawl,

 

You're lost WITH the opening crawl

[1Leonard 134]

 but I think most people agree with me about TFA... 

Well, if your opinion is something as basic as "TFA is a lot like ANH" then yeah, everyone and their dog agrees with you.

 

It's also not a very original or motivated opinion.

[Doctor Evil 51]

not everyone agrees with my opinion on ANH (I think I have already expressed some of the issues I have with Ep. 4, its obvious no one else agrees with me so Ill leave it at that), but I think most people agree with me about TFA... 

 

If you think most people agree with you on TFA then you need to check A. the Rotton Tomatoes score and B. the IMDB score, both of which are extremely high for Star Wars (IMDB score is dropping a bit due to the excess in trolls though). All you've cited so far is subjective evidence that isn't even solid, as for your criticisms of TFA, you're complaining about it not being original... which I again go back to one of my points. If you didn't like how it wasn't original, then why are you watching Star Wars? And if you didn't like how it had a superweapon, why did you like ANH and, even more importantly, Return of the Jedi, both of which centered around superweapons. If anything, the Starkiller is not the central plot point of TFA. Finding Luke skywalker is.

 

You have yet to answer me on any of these points what so ever, if you can't back up your claims then why do you keep making them over and over?

Edited December 20, 2015 by Doctor Evil

[Haveayap 127]

If you think most people agree with you on TFA then you need to check A. the Rotton Tomatoes score and B. the IMDB score, both of which are extremely high for Star Wars (IMDB score is dropping a bit due to the excess in trolls though). All you've cited so far is subjective evidence that isn't even solid, as for your criticisms of TFA, you're complaining about it not being original... which I again go back to one of my points. If you didn't like how it wasn't original, then why are you watching Star Wars? And if you didn't like how it had a superweapon, why did you like ANH and, even more importantly, Return of the Jedi, both of which centered around superweapons. If anything, the Starkiller is not the central plot point of TFA. Finding Luke skywalker is.

 

You have yet to answer me on any of these points what so ever

Again, TFA is not a bad movie. IMO, the super weapon has been rehashed one to many times... It was fine in Ep. 4 and 6, but ep. 7 should have gone with something new

[Doctor Evil 51]

Again, TFA is not a bad movie. IMO, the super weapon has been rehashed one to many times... It was fine in Ep. 4 and 6, but ep. 7 should have gone with something new

 

So the fact that it has a superweapon at all automatically hurts its credibility? The superweapon wasn't even the central point of the plot. Everything you're saying seems to be copy and pasted from what the trolls on IMDB boards are saying... "EP 7 used superweapon, EP7 isn't original, should be different"

 

Please tell me how you would have done Episode 7 then, enlighten me. If something is successful, you can guarantee it might be re-used in the future. It worked for Episode 4, it worked for this movie. One of the reasons for making this movie was to create Star Wars for a new generation, and thus I figured they're re-create some of what made the very first movie awesome in order to bring it to some of the younger fans like myself who never got to experience the original in theatres. Did it borrow a bit from the originals? Certainly. Did it feel fresh? Absolutely. It's all about the execution, and here it was done great