Malachor VI: An Ending Mod

[Pazaak 12]

  On 2/10/2011 at 11:05 PM, catagurin said:

Well, this is what I've read on Wookiepedia: "The Exile returned to Dantooine to complete her training as a Jedi, then she ventured into the Unknown Regions in search of the Jedi Knight Revan, and was never seen again. She left her apprentices behind to resurrect the fallen Jedi Order."

 

Or if it isn't Dantooine, surely it's Telos.

 

I don't mean to knock the oracle or anything, but is there a source somewhere for that on Wookiepedia? I'm a little confused as to where one could even get the idea. I know the Exile leaves the party behind, but where does it state he went to train on dantooine and such? Not complaining, just curious. Did a dev say this? Was it in a comic?

[Guest DH-010]

  On 2/11/2011 at 3:28 PM, bead-v said:

The wookieepedia article says the source is The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. If anybody has that, they can check.

I have that (the encyclopedia), so I'll check now... I'll be back in a sec...

 

EDIT:

 

Yeah, it says that;

"Taking [Kreia]'s words at face value, the Exile returned to Dantooine to complete her training as a Jedi, then disappearing into the Unknown Regions and was never seen again." (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol.2, p.148)

 

So, the Exile definitely doesn't go to the Unknown Regions immediately. It seems (s)he stays on Dantooine for awhile and leaves the party at some point to go away...

 

  Quote

But also, the rest of the MVI content isn't canon anyway, so it wouldn't be so bad if we didn't stick to it in this case too. I don't know, we'll see once we get there...

Yes, but all the content you are adding could be canon in a way, as it is never stated that the Malachor Academy doesn't have a med-bay for example.

To have the go somewhere while real sources state something different, is another thing IMO.

[bead-v 251]

  Quote

Yeah, it says that;

"Taking [Kreia]'s words at face value, the Exile returned to Dantooine to complete her training as a Jedi, then disappearing into the Unknown Regions and was never seen again." (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol.2, p.148)

 

So, the Exile definitely doesn't go to the Unknown Regions immediately. It seems (s)he stays on Dantooine for awhile and leaves the party at some point to go away...

Interesting.. the first question that comes to my mind is who trained the Exile on Dantooine?

 

  Quote

Yes, but all the content you are adding could be canon in a way, as it is never stated that the Malachor Academy doesn't have a med-bay for example.

To have the go somewhere while real sources state something different, is another thing IMO.

That is true for some of it, but MVI still won't be canon for the same reason TSLRCM isn't, it changes content, in canon the party never attacks Kreia, in fact they probably never leave the Hawk...

[Guest DH-010]

  On 2/11/2011 at 5:49 PM, bead-v said:

Interesting.. the first question that comes to my mind is who trained the Exile on Dantooine?

I don't know.

 

I do think I remember though (I could be very wrong), that there is somewhere in the game implied that there are more Jedi still alive in hiding than just the four Counsel members...

 

  Quote

That is true for some of it, but MVI still won't be canon for the same reason TSLRCM isn't, it changes content, in canon the party never attacks Kreia, in fact they probably never leave the Hawk...

Okay, true in the strictest sense.

 

But most of the additions you are making are still well within the realm of possibility, as they are never contradicted in other sources. It doesn't say in my encyclopedia wether or not the party attacked Kreia for example, so in my view both could have happened. As it does say where the Exile went after Malachor, there is less freedom (if you're wanting to keep the mod realistic of-course).

In the same sense I wouldn't say TSLRCM isn't canon, it's more a grey area.

 

Either way, this really is just a trivial part. Please do with it as you see fit!

[Pazaak 12]

  On 2/11/2011 at 9:35 PM, DH-010 said:

I don't know.

 

I do think I remember though (I could be very wrong), that there is somewhere in the game implied that there are more Jedi still alive in hiding than just the four Counsel members...

 

 

Okay, true in the strictest sense.

 

But most of the additions you are making are still well within the realm of possibility, as they are never contradicted in other sources. It doesn't say in my encyclopedia wether or not the party attacked Kreia for example, so in my view both could have happened. As it does say where the Exile went after Malachor, there is less freedom (if you're wanting to keep the mod realistic of-course).

In the same sense I wouldn't say TSLRCM isn't canon, it's more a grey area.

 

Either way, this really is just a trivial part. Please do with it as you see fit!

 

Canon schmannon. My canon for any game is the way I play it. If that means The Exile beats up a random vagrant asking for credits for no reason, well, then that's my canon. Unfortunately a lot of people are very feverish about what is "established" canon. Oh well, maybe someday people can come to see it my way.

[catagurin 11]

  On 2/12/2011 at 3:51 AM, Pazaak said:

Canon schmannon. My canon for any game is the way I play it. If that means The Exile beats up a random vagrant asking for credits for no reason, well, then that's my canon. Unfortunately a lot of people are very feverish about what is "established" canon. Oh well, maybe someday people can come to see it my way.

 

Pazaak got a point there! Originally, KOTOR games were not supposed to reflect canon. They were made just for entertainment, for letting the player create his own fantasy.

[jjo 2]

  On 2/12/2011 at 3:51 AM, Pazaak said:

Canon schmannon. My canon for any game is the way I play it. If that means The Exile beats up a random vagrant asking for credits for no reason, well, then that's my canon. Unfortunately a lot of people are very feverish about what is "established" canon. Oh well, maybe someday people can come to see it my way.

 

 

I totally agree. When I started playing KOTOR, I wasn't even aware there was canon attached to it. It was just my own little world. Games should be the way the player wants them to be and not necessarily have to adhere to canon. But I guess I'm slightly biased against canon since my favorite ways to play the games are as a LS female Revan and a DS male Exile.

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

  On 2/11/2011 at 9:35 PM, DH-010 said:

 

I do think I remember though (I could be very wrong), that there is somewhere in the game implied that there are more Jedi still alive in hiding than just the four Counsel members...

 

The green Twi'lek Deesra Lur-Jada from the first game is supposed to have survived. I wanted to make a mod where he was still running around somewhere too. I suppose it could be done, considering he uses a twi'lek VO. I wouldn't add him to M4-78 though, maybe another planet entirely.

 

 

 

  Quote

But most of the additions you are making are still well within the realm of possibility

 

This is the importance of staying somewhat true to canon, or at least a canonical framework. As long as it doesn't contradict existing canon, or seem like really terrible retcon or just a dumb idea in general.

 

An example is that the Exile canonically goes to Telos. Yes, this is true, but what he/she does at Telos is up for question. It has some effect on the game, but the general framework is intact.

 

Concerning the end though, we don't really know what the Exile will do. Yes, one source can say that the Exile returned to Dantooine to finish his/her training, but that's only one possibility, if we even bother doing it at all. Other possibilities include, flying off into unknown space, returning to Exile, maybe even possibly dying when Malachor blows up. Who knows? The point is, that the endings are going to be based off of what flows the best in the game.

 

If the Exile needs to epically walk off in the final scene of the game, that's what's going to happen. That won't be the only option of course, but you get what I'm saying, right?

[Guest Disturbed205]

  On 2/11/2011 at 9:35 PM, DH-010 said:

I do think I remember though (I could be very wrong), that there is somewhere in the game implied that there are more Jedi still alive in hiding than just the four Counsel members...

Bastila, Jolee, Juhani, canonically they're all alive at the end of K1. Also, Kreia states that there were barely 100 Jedi alive after Peragus when asking her about the Jedi Civil War on the way to Telos.

 

There's also Nomi Sunrider, Zayne Carrick, and plenty of other Jedi during the time that were never confirmed dead.

[Sith Holocron 2,514]

As I've covered this in another post, I'll just copy and paste the relevant info of which Jedi survived the events of KOTOR.

 

SPOILERS FOLLOW

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You wouldn't be able to put the following Jedi in the "tubes" that power the Star Forge for continuity purposes:

Vrook survives KOTOR1 to die at the Enclave (or at your hands earlier on Dantooine) in KOTOR2

Vandar survives KOTOR1 so he can die on Katarr in KOTOR2

Dorak survives KOTOR1 so he too can die on Katarr in KOTOR2

Zhar survives KOTOR1 so he can die on Katarr in KOTOR2 as well

Nemo dies early in KOTOR1 in the ruins where you find the first Star Map.

 

That leaves the following Jedi that we've seen:

1) Belaya (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Belaya) - if you don't kill her on Korriban.

2) Yuthura Ban (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nemo) - if you've redeemed her on Korriban, that is.

3) Deesra Luur Jada (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Deesra_Luur_Jada) - the Twi'lek Jedi Knight that tells the PC about the Terentateks.

4) Bolook (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bolook) - The Twi'lek that asks you to help solve a murder on Dantooine.

 

I suppose the rest of the tubes could be filled with random male or female Jedi (of any species) wearing Jedi Robes. Hopefully if someone does use Yuthura Ban for the tanks, she'll appear in Jedi robes instead of the Sith uniform we're used to. How ironic if you saved her just so she could wind up powering a Dark Side artifact.

 

[SpecPT 0]

would it be terribly counter-canon if the game ends with the exile trying to restore the jedi order with his disciple(s) at telos? seems like a very suiting LS ending to me, although i haven't played the game in some years... any thoughts?

[Sith Holocron 2,514]

  On 2/14/2011 at 11:38 AM, SpecPT said:

would it be terribly counter-canon if the game ends with the exile trying to restore the jedi order with his disciple(s) at telos? seems like a very suiting LS ending to me, although i haven't played the game in some years... any thoughts?

What happens if you haven't killed Atris? Isn't she still there. SpecPT?

[Guest Slstoev]

Maybe redeem her by her filling Kreia's missing spot in the party selection if there were any continuation mods for TSL.

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

  On 2/14/2011 at 1:59 PM, Sith Holocron said:

What happens if you haven't killed Atris? Isn't she still there. SpecPT?

 

She would probably still be on Telos, but not included in the new Jedi Order, I would guess.

[Sith Holocron 2,514]

  On 2/18/2011 at 6:52 AM, VarsityPuppet said:

She would probably still be on Telos, but not included in the new Jedi Order, I would guess.

 

Will the Sith Holocron room be locked in you have everyone return to the Secret Academy?

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

  On 2/19/2011 at 1:27 AM, Sith Holocron said:

Will the Sith Holocron room be locked in you have everyone return to the Secret Academy?

 

When would they return to the secret Academy?

[Guest hkmandalore47]

probably my fault for not reading other people's comments due to my laziness, but:

 

is this actual restored content, or is it separate and just for fun?

 

because im the kind of person that would only want to play the game as it was intended to be, not with anything extra no matter how cool it might be

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

  On 2/19/2011 at 5:05 AM, hkmandalore47 said:

probably my fault for not reading other people's comments due to my laziness, but:

 

is this actual restored content, or is it separate and just for fun?

 

because im the kind of person that would only want to play the game as it was intended to be, not with anything extra no matter how cool it might be

 

It's half and half. We're working to repair the game to make it as enjoyable as possible with the cut content that we've been given in the game discs. If we were to restore cut content alone, there would still be many plot holes and action in between left untouched and unpolished. This is one of the large parts of the mod - to make and add things that 'would' fit into the game but not so much as to mess with canon or the overall feel of the game.

 

For the stuff it does add, it is well within the scope of the game.

 

And to be honest, I don't even think that 'TSL as was intended' is even a rational dream anymore. Unless Obsidian finishes the game, we're stuck solving a puzzle that's missing about 1/3 of its pieces. The only thing we can do is do our best to make something discernible out of the pieces, filling in whatever gaps we can - without changing too much of the puzzle.

[Guest DH-010]

Sorry I reply a week later, busy week;

 

  On 2/13/2011 at 7:45 PM, VarsityPuppet said:

The green Twi'lek Deesra Lur-Jada from the first game is supposed to have survived. (..)

Ah yes of-course, I knew wasn't delusional! There are more Jedi.

 

  Quote

This is the importance of staying somewhat true to canon, or at least a canonical framework.

(..)

Concerning the end though, we don't really know what the Exile will do. Yes, one source can say that the Exile returned to Dantooine to finish his/her training, but that's only one possibility, if we even bother doing it at all. Other possibilities include, flying off into unknown space, returning to Exile, maybe even possibly dying when Malachor blows up. Who knows? The point is, that the endings are going to be based off of what flows the best in the game.

 

If the Exile needs to epically walk off in the final scene of the game, that's what's going to happen. That won't be the only option of course, but you get what I'm saying, right?

Exactly, of-course I wasn't saying there should be only one ending because that's what the book says. As you say, the ending of the game should flow out of the events in that particular playthrough. There would be multiple endings, with one ending similar to what official sources say so that one 'could' be considered canon, while keeping others 'possible' in the timeline.

 

So... I guess I'm saying what you are saying .

 

  On 2/19/2011 at 3:50 AM, VarsityPuppet said:

When would they return to the secret Academy?

I think the only possible way the Exile would return to Telos is when (s)he is Darkside, Malachor is destroyed and Atris is dead. That way the Exile can continue training his/herself in the DS-way using the Holocrons and possibly train any party members left alive...

 

A very slim chance I think. A Lightsider will probably not return to Telos (there is little point) and if Malachor survives a DS Exile will stay there as Trayus is more powerful than Telos.

[Pazaak 12]

  On 2/19/2011 at 7:33 AM, VarsityPuppet said:

It's half and half. We're working to repair the game to make it as enjoyable as possible with the cut content that we've been given in the game discs. If we were to restore cut content alone, there would still be many plot holes and action in between left untouched and unpolished. This is one of the large parts of the mod - to make and add things that 'would' fit into the game but not so much as to mess with canon or the overall feel of the game.

 

For the stuff it does add, it is well within the scope of the game.

 

And to be honest, I don't even think that 'TSL as was intended' is even a rational dream anymore. Unless Obsidian finishes the game, we're stuck solving a puzzle that's missing about 1/3 of its pieces. The only thing we can do is do our best to make something discernible out of the pieces, filling in whatever gaps we can - without changing too much of the puzzle.

 

Eh. Canon again, huh. Anyway, regardless of 'canon', I'm still looking forward to the things 'not intended for TSL' but 'still within possibility'. It'll still make the ending a lot fatter, with a lot more content, so who really cares? Who's to say the Exile didn't do such and such at Malachor? Then again, one could say the same thing about anything. That just because it wasn't shown, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

Well, I'm happy either way, as canon means very little to me. So however you guys decide to take this I'll be happy, and have a much fuller experience.

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

We're keeping stuff within the realm of possibility is all I'm saying, without retconning or making outrageous plot twists. Party members will stay as true to their characters as we can allow - like Mandalore and Visas aren't going to start up a heated, passionate relationship so late in the game.

 

No new characters, except for the generic Boss Sith guy - most of the 'new' NPCs added to the game will be people you'll kill in about 20 seconds anyways.

[Pazaak 12]

  On 2/21/2011 at 4:28 AM, VarsityPuppet said:

We're keeping stuff within the realm of possibility is all I'm saying, without retconning or making outrageous plot twists. Party members will stay as true to their characters as we can allow - like Mandalore and Visas aren't going to start up a heated, passionate relationship so late in the game.

 

No new characters, except for the generic Boss Sith guy - most of the 'new' NPCs added to the game will be people you'll kill in about 20 seconds anyways.

 

I read that wrong for a minute. 'Real of possibility' huh, Mandalore/Visas had a secret affair? Oh good, haha.

 

But in all seriousness, yeah, I feel you. Canon-esque plot points are still important to keep the story and continuity well fleshed out and whatnot.

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

Yeah, I'm not a real canon-psycho, and I can't imagine Bead is either.

 

I personally am also not a real big fan of raw cut content either. IMO, cut content needs to be restored with context.

[MrPhil 58]

  On 2/21/2011 at 10:04 PM, VarsityPuppet said:

Yeah, I'm not a real canon-psycho, and I can't imagine Bead is either.I personally am also not a real big fan of raw cut content either. IMO, cut content needs to be restored with context.

 

Agreed. I still find the "masked attacker" on Telos to be a little odd, for example.

[Pazaak 12]

  On 2/22/2011 at 5:41 AM, MrPhil said:

Agreed. I still find the "masked attacker" on Telos to be a little odd, for example.

 

"The Masked Attacker?" Explain. Can't say I'm savvy to this.