Malachor VI: An Ending Mod

[Logan23 205]

Hey,

 

The bond between the Exile/Kreia and the Exile/party are different.

 

Kreia and the Exile were bonded as both were near death at the beginning of the game. I'm assuming Kreia made sure they were bonded. This bond even though would cause pain to the PC, there is not proof it would kill the other person.

 

Exile and the party bonds is the Exile feeding off the party members force sensitivity. As the party members get stronger so does the Exile in the Force. I'm assuming that the Exile re connected to the Force some time during the adventure ( most likely during the second visit to dantoonie) which means the Exile can feel the force again but this does not remove his ability to feed off others around them.

 

If a party member dies the Exile will not since the Exile will be mainly feeding off the fumes/or glow of the party member's force ability. The Exile's force bond condition is not one that kills when it feeds but simply takes the left overs. As the party member expands its ability the extras increase and so does the bond and the Exile's power/influence on that person. If the Exile losses influence then the force/energy bond is not as strong so there are less feeding but its still there. After all the party member never leaves as if subconscious it has creates a mental bond where the party member feels obligated to stay even if they do not want to. This is shown in a scene where the Pc does an action and the party member follows then says in the game they don't really know what happen..they simply reacted.

 

 

The Exile's condition is not a light or dark side issue but a grey. It is a condition that allows the Exile to feed off those strong in the force around him. Wither he does good or bad things is not relevant to his condition. His condition does not care.

 

Now the Exile's ability is a point where you can go into a different direction and become more force vampire at a lower level then Nihilus but this is something that has to be experienced or learned. Nihilus's condition is not the Exile but they are in the same family of Force powers

 

 

This means even after the ending of kotor2 the Exile will always have this condition. The Exile can learn to be aware of it but it will still be there since it was a result of Malachor V's event during the Mando wars.

 

Logan

[Guest DH-010]

Well, what is (maybe) also possible is the following;

 

You leave Kreia's line as it is and it becomes up to the player how to interpret it. The 'reward' (in the path you get stronger) would be based on the alignment of the player.

 

For example, if the Exile is Lightside, the bonus is in the path you save your friends while the other (the 'Revenge-path') becomes the path where the LS Exile 'gets weaker for it'. A Darkside Exile gets a bonus for killing all the Assassins so (s)he got revenge, while a DS Exile gets weaker for saving his/her friends.

 

Perhaps this will accomplish a middle ground in the Force-bond issue (both for continuity in the game as for the player)...

Edited October 10, 2010 by DH-010

[Lord of Hunger 13]

Well, what is (maybe) also possible is the following;

 

You leave Kreia's line as it is and it becomes up to the player how to interpret it. The 'reward' (in the path you get stronger) would be based on the alignment of the player.

 

For example, if the Exile is Lightside, the bonus is in the path you save your friends while the other (the 'Revenge-path') becomes the path where the LS Exile 'gets weaker for it'. A Darkside Exile gets a bonus for killing all the Assassins so (s)he got revenge, while a DS Exile gets weaker for saving his/her friends.

 

Perhaps this will accomplish a middle ground in the Force-bond issue (both for continuity in the game as for the player)...

That is PERFECT. The weakness essentially becomes deviating from the path you have followed, but does not prohibit deviation.

 

Well thought DH!

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

That is PERFECT. The weakness essentially becomes deviating from the path you have followed, but does not prohibit deviation.

 

Well thought DH!

 

Which is what I said, just explained more simply I have a tendency to do that.

 

None of this matters really anyways. We can't really just change Kreia's VO's for the part.

The point I was getting at is that of the two paths you choose to take, it's not going to be strictly "Rescue friends, breeze through a few enemies and follow the light" or "Neglect friends, fight a shitload of tough enemies and represent the dark".

 

Yes, they will be distinguishable, but don't expect it to be night and day (the main differences will be intact though).

[Guest KOTOR FAN]

Note: Before you start reading this, i want you too know that english is not my native language, meaning that there are many possibilities for grammar mistakes. Hopefully, i'll manage too avoid that. So please, forgive me if i have too many grammar errors.

 

Instead of one path being strictly dark side, and another one being strictly light, why not make it a bit more complicated?

Why not actually make this a hard choice?

 

Example: you are following the path of the light, therefore it seems natuarally too save your friends, whereas going killing sith just for the sake of pity vengeance seems wrong. However, what if The Exile knew that these sith was going to bring even more suffering upon the galaxy if they were not stopped. I mean, it is Sith Lords and STRONG Sith Assassins we are talking about, isn't it.

 

Yes, i know Malachor can potentially be destroyed, but there must be ships on this planet too. I mean, how the hell would Kreia, Sion or Nihilus escape Malachor if it were no forms of transport there.

Perphaps these sith also would escape with the help of one or more ships, and then land on some barren planet far from civilization, and land on these planet to build up ther dark power, until they are strong enough too attack habitable planets.

 

For dark siders, your allies can be useless, yes, but they can also be used as valuable tools.

 

Basically, what i want is this choice;

Light Side alternative 1: Save friends, but know that the sith you didn't kill will bring suffering.

Light side alternative 2: Stop them and the suffering they will bring if allowed too live, but know that your friends will die.

Dark side alternative 1: Take your revenge, but you will miss your tools/allies.

Dark Side alternative 2: Save your tools/allies, but you do not get any revenge.

 

Of course, all of this is just a suggestion, nothing more, nothing less. I just wanted too state my opinion on the matter.

Edited October 12, 2010 by KOTOR FAN
Grammar Fix

[Guest DH-010]

(..)

Well thought DH!

Thanks for the compliment!

 

Which is what I said, just explained more simply I have a tendency to do that.

Man, and I thought I was being original!...

None of this matters really anyways. We can't really just change Kreia's VO's for the part.

The point I was getting at is that of the two paths you choose to take, it's not going to be strictly "Rescue friends, breeze through a few enemies and follow the light" or "Neglect friends, fight a shitload of tough enemies and represent the dark".

 

Yes, they will be distinguishable, but don't expect it to be night and day (the main differences will be intact though).

 

I admit I'm not the expert on all the VOs and where they go in the game, but I've quickly sought them (Kreia's telepathic lines aimed at Darth Sion, in 903KREIA) out in my KOTOR2 directory. You are right about Kreia's lines not being particularly suitable. Especially the 903KREIA003.wav, in which Kreia states that "One route will take [the Exile] directly to this place, through the ones that hounded [the Exile's] steps from the beginning."

 

Of course, if taken literally, this is not possible in any way since the Exile must always make his/her way through one of the wings first. Therefore, I don't think the VOs need changing/re-arranging/replacing or any other kind of manipulation to work in this context (of the wings giving rewards based on LS/DS alignment as explained in my previous post), because they also work in the current situation of TSLRCM and it remains up to the player how to interpret Kreia's words.

 

Note, this argument only stands if I understood you correctly, otherwise ignore and DEL...

 

I do agree with and understand your argument about the difference between the Crescent and the Proving Grounds wing.

Edited October 12, 2010 by DH-010

[Logan23 205]

Why not have it that if you do not save your party members this will trigger or play a part in the scenes where the Party members like Atton verse Mical happen, or Brianna verse Visas

 

So Pc runs through and forget the party then you can get the party member verse fights.

[catagurin 11]

Why not have it that if you do not save your party members this will trigger or play a part in the scenes where the Party members like Atton verse Mical happen, or Brianna verse Visas

 

So Pc runs through and forget the party then you can get the party member verse fights.

 

I agree with Logan23! His idea is excellent!

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I concur with Logan23 and Catagurin. As the Exile is their reason for being together in the first place, the act of saving them might negate theor hostility towards each other. If they don't get that sacrifice, they turn against each other.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Why not have it that if you do not save your party members this will trigger or play a part in the scenes where the Party members like Atton verse Mical happen, or Brianna verse Visas

 

So Pc runs through and forget the party then you can get the party member verse fights.

 

The Vs. scenes are supposed to happen when the Exile has more influence with either Disciple or Visas, AND either Atton or the Handmaiden has joined Kreia to head off to Malachor. These encounters should happen regardless of whether the PC saves them.

[Guest DH-010]

Besides, if the party is not saved, they are still in the prison cells. So how can they fight each other?

[bead-v 251]

Maybe they got out in some other way.. =P

 

Anyways, about the vs scenes:

The whole thing is triggered when inf(Disciple/Visas) > inf(Hand/Atton). After this happens the villain (Atton or Handmaiden) has two scenes with Kreia, and they swear loyalty to her in the second. Near the end of the game, she takes them with her to Malachor to prepare for Visas'/Disciple's arrival. Now picture the villain in the Trayus academy amongst the sith, and their target is lying in a cell. Hm, well what on malachor would happen in such a case? =P

[Guest DH-010]

Maybe they got out in some other way.. =P

Which would be pretty lame if you ask me, a smack in the face if you will, to see locked-up people just running around unexplained.

Anyways, about the vs scenes:

The whole thing is triggered when inf(Disciple/Visas) > inf(Hand/Atton). After this happens the villain (Atton or Handmaiden) has two scenes with Kreia, and they swear loyalty to her in the second. Near the end of the game, she takes them with her to Malachor to prepare for Visas'/Disciple's arrival. Now picture the villain in the Trayus academy amongst the sith, and their target is lying in a cell. Hm, well what on malachor would happen in such a case? =P

If you have it like that, there is only one location where such a confrontation could take place if the Exile does not rescue this party-member;

 

In his/her cell.

 

So, if the Exile does not rescue Disciple/Visas, the following cutscene could occur; Disciple/Visas sits in his/her cell minding his/her (that get's annoying) own business. Atton/Handmaiden is suddenly coming around the corner. Disciple/Visas startles for a moment and the dialogue begins. Very similar in fact to the Episode IV scene where Darth Vader suddenly enters Princess Leia's cell, to interrogate her.

 

If the Exile does save these party members, the confrontation would be on the way out. Atton/Handmaiden would be waiting at the exit of the Academy for the confrontation.

[Logan23 205]

The idea of having them happen due to not saving them is that the Dark energy of Malachor V would seep in and corrupt them , push them to act on their jealousy.

 

But also this would deviate from the main setup of the vanilla game mechanics, so it comes down to would this be proper to do or make sense to do?

[catagurin 11]

Well my point was: that atton and disciple/ visas and handmaiden are something like rivals in the game! And it would be a shame to finish the game and not to have a fight between them!! Is hard to make those influences and you don't always get in a game to trigger it! The Brianna and visas thing is a little glitchy!!!!! But it doesn't matter, the mod is still going to be great no matter what you decide to do!!! Good Luck and errrrr....I'm waiting ( But I can't! Is killing me!!!! )=)

[Guest DH-010]

Well my point was: that atton and disciple/ visas and handmaiden are something like rivals in the game! And it would be a shame to finish the game and not to have a fight between them!! Is hard to make those influences and you don't always get in a game to trigger it! The Brianna and visas thing is a little glitchy!!!!! But it doesn't matter, the mod is still going to be great no matter what you decide to do!!! Good Luck and errrrr....I'm waiting ( But I can't! Is killing me!!!! )=)

 

It would be shame not to see these scenes, but I guess that's the price you pay for taking the quick and easy path (the Darkside (not saving your friends), for those who didn't understood the Yoda quote).

 

The thing is, as much as I'd like it to be possible, you can't go around the fact that all the party members are locked up in the cells and without any possible means of escape there really are only two options when the Exile does not save the party; 1.) in one the companions' cells and 2.) not show the cutscene.

 

In general (not specifically directed at the quoted post);

 

I get the fact that the partymembers only start acting this way because they are corrupted by the dark-side energy of Malachor V and it should be explained as such. If the party is still locked up however, they can be jealous all they want inside their cell and there still isn't anything they can do about it.

 

I don't know if this is still relevant however, seeing as the last post is from a week ago...

If so, please move along. Move along (yep another quote).

 

For the record, I still can't wait for this to be finished, I've been holding off on a new playthrough until this is done!

[bead-v 251]

Especially the 903KREIA003.wav, in which Kreia states that "One route will take [the Exile] directly to this place, through the ones that hounded [the Exile's] steps from the beginning."

 

Of course, if taken literally, this is not possible in any way since the Exile must always make his/her way through one of the wings first.

Not entirely true, in 905MAL, the prison section is off the main route to the core, so if you're saving your friends you need to do more running around. I know, long time ago, but I just noticed it now.

 

I get the fact that the partymembers only start acting this way because they are corrupted by the dark-side energy of Malachor V and it should be explained as such. If the party is still locked up however, they can be jealous all they want inside their cell and there still isn't anything they can do about it.

Actually no. You guys have to realize that this isn't just a random standalone scene that happens to happen on Malachor, but a conclusion to the story between Hand/Atton and Visas/Disciple, which began when the latter first joined the crew (remember Handmaiden expressing her disapproval of keeping Visas on board right after the medbay scene). And Atton/Handmaiden decided what they wanted to do when they swore loyalty to Kreia, and then left with her for Malachor. Sure, Malachor's dark energies may have caused Atton/Handmaiden to fall further down the path, but they are definitely not the main reason for the fight, not even close.

 

Another thing, Visas and Disciple aren't jealous, only Handmaiden and Atton are, and they aren't sitting in any cell if Kreia took them to Malachor.

Edited October 29, 2010 by bead-v

[Logan23 205]

How does playout with an ending? I know the vanilla ending does not show anything concering those fight scenes. Im assuming Kriea will not give the visions for the party member who dies in the fight, visas vs Brianna, for example. Do you guys plan to show anything after those fights on those characters or PC sensing them or seeing the result.

 

Thanks

 

Logan

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

You guys have to realize that this isn't just a random standalone scene that happens to happen on Malachor, but a conclusion to the story between Hand/Atton and Visas/Disciple, which began when the latter first joined the crew (remember Handmaiden expressing her disapproval of keeping Visas on board right after the medbay scene). And Atton/Handmaiden decided what they wanted to do when they swore loyalty to Kreia, and then left with her for Malachor.

 

Bead is correct, and I have to stress just how important this is. The party members do not turn on eachother due to the dark energies of Malachor. It will make the confrontations more intense, yes, but the real issues started way back on the Ebon Hawk.

 

These vs. scenes don't have to 'only' take place when the Exile decides to save his/her friends. They will probably happen regardless of the path you take.

 

How does playout with an ending? I know the vanilla ending does not show anything concering those fight scenes. Im assuming Kriea will not give the visions for the party member who dies in the fight, visas vs Brianna, for example. Do you guys plan to show anything after those fights on those characters or PC sensing them or seeing the result.

 

Kreia's Visions: We haven't discussed what to do just yet for that.

 

As for the fights, we do have something planned post-confrontation.

Edited October 29, 2010 by VarsityPuppet

[Tricky 10]

How are the stealth/infiltration options looking for the extended content? I kind of prefer to avoid confrontations in my games, if possible.

[bead-v 251]

Not sure what you mean by that, Tricky, could you try explaining it some more?

[Tricky 10]

Stealth to sneak past people, use a computer release a droid, open a door without killing the person holding the key, etc.. pretty general stuff.

[bead-v 251]

Well, we have just started working on the inside of Trayus, so we'll try to make sure we include those options too.. =)

[Tricky 10]

Mighty kind of you.

[Guest DH-010]

Not entirely true, in 905MAL, the prison section is off the main route to the core, so if you're saving your friends you need to do more running around. I know, long time ago, but I just noticed it now.

Yeah, okay, that's true I suppose, from a certain point of view...

(..)

Another thing, Visas and Disciple aren't jealous, only Handmaiden and Atton are, and they aren't sitting in any cell if Kreia took them to Malachor.

 

(..)

These vs. scenes don't have to 'only' take place when the Exile decides to save his/her friends. They will probably happen regardless of the path you take.

(..)

Maybe I just don't get it (which is a real possibility at this point, I'm getting confused )

But the point is, if the Exile does not save the locked up party member, there can't be a fight.

 

If the Exile leaves the party for what they are, one of the two rivals will always be in his/her cell indefinitely, so the only way there even could be a fight in this case is if the other somehow also enters the cell and therefore the fight could only happen inside this cell...

 

...

 

Edited October 30, 2010 by DH-010