1.8 Impressions

[Hassat Hunter 571]

But I've noticed a problem in the new loot system... Lenses (for lightsabers) don't really exist. Throughout the entire game, I managed to find only one. I try to be very thorough, and I've found a ton of items that, frankly, should probably be a little rarer than they are (3 exar kun's light battle suit). My main concern, though, are the lenses, as I see them as an integral part of the lightsaber building process. I suppose it is theoretically possible that I have no found lenses because I am not a male Jedi Guardian (like my last ten billion playthroughs), but that seems odd.

Well, for starters, upgrades are uncommon;

// equipment is more common than upgrades.

if(nRoll == 2 && Random(100)

Second, lightsaber items don't appear before level 10.

// lightsaber upgrades left out if item level

Third, they have 5 different sections of items it could drop (which is pretty much the most sub-classes of loot in the script, stuff like blasters and armor have 2 or 3).

case 24: {nItemRandom = 5;

break;}

I think it was specifically kept rare to make crafting more interesting and rewarding to do, since it's very hard/rare for most upgrade items to drop.

As for the many armors... The light/med/heavy ones only have 15 variations, robes 30. In the endgame a LOT of loot is generated. Since by the end of the game only about 3 different armors (and 6 robes) can be generated, obviously a lot of duplicates will be spawn for your inventory...

[GalinKinlin 0]

Well, for starters, upgrades are uncommon;

// equipment is more common than upgrades.

if(nRoll == 2 && Random(100) < 50) nRoll = 3;

Second, lightsaber items don't appear before level 10.

// lightsaber upgrades left out if item level < 6 or player level < 10

Third, they have 5 different sections of items it could drop (which is pretty much the most sub-classes of loot in the script, stuff like blasters and armor have 2 or 3).

case 24: {nItemRandom = 5;

break;}

I think it was specifically kept rare to make crafting more interesting and rewarding to do, since it's very hard/rare for most upgrade items to drop.

As for the many armors... The light/med/heavy ones only have 15 variations, robes 30. In the endgame a LOT of loot is generated. Since by the end of the game only about 3 different armors (and 6 robes) can be generated, obviously a lot of duplicates will be spawn for your inventory...

 

Perhaps it will just take getting used to... but having 3 or 4 of each of the one of a kind robes is just kind of weird, when I know I don't have even half of the lenses/underlays/overlays/scopes/etc.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Perhaps it will just take getting used to... but having 3 or 4 of each of the one of a kind robes is just kind of weird, when I know I don't have even half of the lenses/underlays/overlays/scopes/etc.

That's not different from vanilla TSL though.

Not exactly helped by the fact there are many more upgrade items than weapon/armor items (while the second are more commonly found, which is especially in the start handy).

[Hegirae 1]

I have to admit, unfortunately, the HK Factory is infuriatingly difficult. By that, I don't mean that HK-47 dies every 10 seconds, but rather the combat is sluggishly tedious. Any HK model takes a good minute to 90 seconds of constant fire to finally give up the ghost, and this is with a fully-modded Droid Assassin's Rifle, plus any grenades and Ion Strikers that I can get my hands on. Statistically, HK-50s seem to have ~1500 HP for a Level 29 HK-47, and HK-51s seem to have ~2000. Multiply this factor by the ubiquitous three-droid squad, and it takes anywhere from three to five minutes to clear a room.

 

This becomes unplayable in the final leg of the factory, when you encounter the ~10-droid HK squad by the factory control console. Then, say you go to halt production of the HK-50s, not only do you have crawl through the ten or so to the production console, you then have to carve your way to the HK-51 assembly area, defended by the seemingly-more-powerful 20 or so HK-51s.

 

In short, nerf the HP of the HKs by, say, 40%, and this section would be tolerable.

 

Also, I have no clue how to get the HK-51s to ally with '47. What exactly is the correct trigger? I deactivated the HK-50 line first, but now the 51s are seemingly hostile as well? Just how does this work?

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I have to admit, unfortunately, the HK Factory is infuriatingly difficult. By that, I don't mean that HK-47 dies every 10 seconds, but rather the combat is sluggishly tedious. Any HK model takes a good minute to 90 seconds of constant fire to finally give up the ghost, and this is with a fully-modded Droid Assassin's Rifle, plus any grenades and Ion Strikers that I can get my hands on. Statistically, HK-50s seem to have ~1500 HP for a Level 29 HK-47, and HK-51s seem to have ~2000. Multiply this factor by the ubiquitous three-droid squad, and it takes anywhere from three to five minutes to clear a room.

 

This becomes unplayable in the final leg of the factory, when you encounter the ~10-droid HK squad by the factory control console. Then, say you go to halt production of the HK-50s, not only do you have crawl through the ten or so to the production console, you then have to carve your way to the HK-51 assembly area, defended by the seemingly-more-powerful 20 or so HK-51s.

 

In short, nerf the HP of the HKs by, say, 40%, and this section would be tolerable.

 

Also, I have no clue how to get the HK-51s to ally with '47. What exactly is the correct trigger? I deactivated the HK-50 line first, but now the 51s are seemingly hostile as well? Just how does this work?

 

 

Interesting considering that the HKs stats are pretty much untouched from the last version.... at least I didn't change them. Did Hassat Hunter change them? Could be that a higher level the HKs are being scaled in terms of difficulty?

 

Otherwise the main complaint I've heard is that they're too easy... but that was with the Droid Capacitor armor.

 

 

As far as activating the HK-51s, I'd say read carefully and do a thorough search. The information is all in the factory.

[Kerk 12]

Good catch. In fact all that Hegirae describes for 1.8 was true for 1.7 when I played it half a year ago. Yes, they take extremely long to kill, yes, 10 droids together pose a serious problem, and yes, getting 51s to cooperate is tricky...solvable, but tricky. I had to reload a few times to get it right.

[Salk 374]

I find myself very symphatetic with Hegirae: the HK factory's challenge is excessive and should be nerfed to make the difficulty of the game more even. I always hated when games set an even challenge level and then raise it to unreasonable heights by the end. It's cheap level design.

 

I am symphatetic with GalinKinlin as well with his concerns about items that should be very rare appearing in lots of 3 or 4 by the end of the game. It breaks immersion.

[Karmanaut 1]

I find myself very symphatetic with Hegirae: the HK factory's challenge is excessive and should be nerfed to make the difficulty of the game more even. I always hated when games set an even challenge level and then raise it to unreasonable heights by the end. It's cheap level design.

 

I am symphatetic with GalinKinlin as well with his concerns about items that should be very rare appearing in lots of 3 or 4 by the end of the game. It breaks immersion.

 

Agreed. Fighting all of those HKs at the end was horrible. The fact that the door behind you became locked made it worse. I would not have survived that if I didn't utilize the workbench. I don't mind challenges, but that was simply too hard.

[JoroA 12]

I had a problem with 2 quests:

1st was the pylon mission on Nar Shadaa. After i completed it i talked to Fassa and i got it again.

2nd for the 1st time i didnt start the finding of the HK factory. I think i did all the dialogs but something i did wrong, not sure what though.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Did Hassat Hunter change them? Could be that a higher level the HKs are being scaled in terms of difficulty?

Nope. And yes, HK's scale with everything else in the game.

Otherwise the main complaint I've heard is that they're too easy... but that was with the Droid Capacitor armor.

They still are. Atleast for me. Double-keened with heavy crit mandalorian rippers and capacitator armor? Dead HK's. I suspect fights can be longer with less pimped out weapons though yes. And survival harder without finding the armor. But that's just bad exploring really...

I find myself very symphatetic with Hegirae: the HK factory's challenge is excessive and should be nerfed to make the difficulty of the game more even. I always hated when games set an even challenge level and then raise it to unreasonable heights by the end. It's cheap level design.

Dammit. There's finally difficulty, not even extreme and then you want to cut it. I mean, Malachor's cutting up is easy, you want it to be just like that?

Also excessive is a bit exagerratd, though maybe I did get rather good in building a good HK-Factory HK-47, and it's really a lot tougher without that.

I am symphatetic with GalinKinlin as well with his concerns about items that should be very rare appearing in lots of 3 or 4 by the end of the game. It breaks immersion.

Easy fix, not let all Malachor/Ravager enemies drop items. Problem solved .

Agreed. Fighting all of those HKs at the end was horrible. The fact that the door behind you became locked made it worse. I would not have survived that if I didn't utilize the workbench. I don't mind challenges, but that was simply too hard.

Shields?

 

Also, may just be because the first time I was exposed to the factory was with TSLRP, which had them approx. 10 times as worse with 20 times the health, that TSLRCM's version is a cakewalk. To all those I would mention be glad you play our mod then and not that one...

 

Can I get some HK-builds and equipment from people who find the factory hard? Actually it should be slightly easier in 1.8 due to headslot items dropping, and they can be powerful, and more droid items dropped throughout the game, increasing the chance of having very good items and armor when the factory starts.

[Karmanaut 1]

 

Shields?

 

Also, may just be because the first time I was exposed to the factory was with TSLRP, which had them approx. 10 times as worse with 20 times the health, that TSLRCM's version is a cakewalk. To all those I would mention be glad you play our mod then and not that one...

 

Can I get some HK-builds and equipment from people who find the factory hard? Actually it should be slightly easier in 1.8 due to headslot items dropping, and they can be powerful, and more droid items dropped throughout the game, increasing the chance of having very good items and armor when the factory starts.

 

I activated many of my shields, but they went by quickly when the ~10 HKs started firing on me at once. I'll post specs later, but I had high-level items equipped.

[Cair 1]

Nope. And yes, HK's scale with everything else in the game.

 

They still are. Atleast for me. Double-keened with heavy crit mandalorian rippers and capacitator armor? Dead HK's. I suspect fights can be longer with less pimped out weapons though yes. And survival harder without finding the armor. But that's just bad exploring really...

 

Dammit. There's finally difficulty, not even extreme and then you want to cut it. I mean, Malachor's cutting up is easy, you want it to be just like that?

Also excessive is a bit exagerratd, though maybe I did get rather good in building a good HK-Factory HK-47, and it's really a lot tougher without that.

 

Easy fix, not let all Malachor/Ravager enemies drop items. Problem solved .

 

Shields?

 

Also, may just be because the first time I was exposed to the factory was with TSLRP, which had them approx. 10 times as worse with 20 times the health, that TSLRCM's version is a cakewalk. To all those I would mention be glad you play our mod then and not that one...

 

Can I get some HK-builds and equipment from people who find the factory hard? Actually it should be slightly easier in 1.8 due to headslot items dropping, and they can be powerful, and more droid items dropped throughout the game, increasing the chance of having very good items and armor when the factory starts.

 

I haven't yet played 1.8 but I'm pretty sure the problem resides in the armor: if you don't get the droid armor you can have all the superpowerful weapons you want, but you will not survive to the HK-50 army. It was as this even in 1.7

However, this game is really easy, the more powerful you become the more weak your enemies will seem. So if, for one time, there is a "difficult" part it's welcomed!

[Salk 374]

Dammit. There's finally difficulty, not even extreme and then you want to cut it.

 

 

In bold lies the problem.

 

TSL (just like KotOR) is a game of very moderate challenge at normal level. People who want a normal challenge want it all through the game. The "There's finally difficulty" is wrong because either the game is hard from beginning to end (there is a reason why there are difficulty choices at game start) or it is moderate/easy from beginning to end. I can allow a small exception for the so called "bosses" that became a "trademark" level design somehow. I still don't like it but it has its internal logic.

 

But the HK factory's difficulty is disproportioned and it's not a boss fight. It's a whole part of the game. The challenge rises abruptly and it is not in harmony with the game itself.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

It's not as different as the Nar Shaddaa sequences with your party members, or the Dxun Tomb. Do you complain about the Dxun Tomb?

It really depends on the build of your chars (and in this case, HK-47).

 

The HK's really aren't more difficult than the Sith Lords finishing that tomb. Actually, those are far harder.

So it's not that different from the main game with the uberpowerful Exile and his less powerful teammates.

[Salk 374]

In Nar Shaddaa or the Dxun tomb I don't have to rely on one specific item worn by one specific character in order to survive.

 

In the HK factory, I do.

 

Also, the fact that you yourself wrote that there is "finally" difficulty would mean that untill that part the game is not difficult (including Nar Shaddaa and Dxun tomb).

 

However, I think TSLRCM is simply brilliant and this is just minor nitpicking. I don't mean to sound ungrateful or aggressive so sorry if I give that impression.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Well, there are the Merc battle and 3 HK-50 on Telos. These can be the most challenging of the game I think, far more than the factory.

 

I was just talking about the endgame portion too with "finally difficulty".

 

And one can perfectly survive without the capacitator armor. You just need to use your shields, and make sure you got good guns to quickly take down the opposition. Not that unlikely that someone has both in their inventory at that point...

[Hassat Hunter 571]

1st was the pylon mission on Nar Shadaa. After i completed it i talked to Fassa and i got it again.

Checking the .dlg file, there seems to be no way to do so.

Any more details on when it was offered again?

[Karmanaut 1]

 

Dammit. There's finally difficulty, not even extreme and then you want to cut it. I mean, Malachor's cutting up is easy, you want it to be just like that?

Also excessive is a bit exagerratd, though maybe I did get rather good in building a good HK-Factory HK-47, and it's really a lot tougher without that.

 

 

Yes, it is extreme. And difficulty is fine, but if it doesn't match with the rest of the game, then it feels partially out of place. If I wanted a difficult game, I'd get a mod that'd do that, and/or raise the difficulty in-game. I'm doing both on my next playthrough actually, but that is for fun.

 

It's not as different as the Nar Shaddaa sequences with your party members, or the Dxun Tomb. Do you complain about the Dxun Tomb?

It really depends on the build of your chars (and in this case, HK-47).

 

The HK's really aren't more difficult than the Sith Lords finishing that tomb. Actually, those are far harder.

So it's not that different from the main game with the uberpowerful Exile and his less powerful teammates.

 

They don't compare. Honestly, I didn't even find the Dxum Tomb to be very challenging. You have three party members fighting those battles, whereas HK-47 is solo in the HK factory. Although the fight back to the Ebon Hawk with Atton, Mira, and T3-M4 was admittedly hard... I still didn't find it nearly as difficult.

 

I'm not trying to imply that I want party members accompanying HK-47, although that would make it less annoyingly difficult, I understand that wouldn't be true to the game. The enemies simply need to be nerfed.

 

 

 

 

However, I think TSLRCM is simply brilliant and this is just minor nitpicking. I don't mean to sound ungrateful or aggressive so sorry if I give that impression.

 

This pretty much.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Well, until just a few days ago I didn't even know people find the HK Factory difficult. It did surface a few times someplace but they mentioned "an older version" so I just assumed they meant the leaked TSLRP beta instead of TSLRCM and them getting confused.

 

I seriously never had an issue, or figured people had an issue. Well, besides that one time that one HK-51 had 3000 or so health. Still didn't die, that one just took long to take down. And VP fixed it for the full version, so no one else ever fought it.

And yes, I play on HARD.

Actually, with only 2 HK on 298 rather than 3 (with them being harder with more HP and damage than their 299 counterpart) it's even easier than 1.7.

 

Still like some builds. Or maybe savegames of your HK in the factory. Then you can have mine (the non-insta-kill blaster one for a quicker run since "dammit-I-already-played-it-over-3-dozen-times!" obviously )

[Karmanaut 1]

My HK-47 (note that I have the Droid Enhancement mod):

 

Level 32

 

Strength: 14+2

Dexterity: 29+8

Constitution: 21+5

Intelligence: 12+1

Wisdom: 12+2

Charisma: 10

 

608 HP

 

Defense: 48

Fortitude: 31

Reflex: 19

Will: 12

 

All three toughness feats, Master Rapid Fire, All precise shots, Weapon Specializations in both blaster pistols and Assault Rifles

 

Repair is at 41 with bonuses

 

Inventory:

 

Armor: Droid Energized Armor Mark III

Head: Droid Battle Upgrade

Upgrades: Droid Systems Upgrade, Droid Scavenger Upgrade

Shields: I alter between Droid Unity Grid and Droid Deflector Mark III

 

Weapon: Droid Assassin's Rifle (Damage:Unstoppable, 2-11. Damage Bonus: +7-21 Energy. On Hit: Slow 50% Chance, 9 seconds, DC 18. Attack Modifier +6.)

 

Secondary: Zersium Rifle (Damage upgraded to 7-57, Attack Modifier +4, Critical Threat: 19-20,x2)

 

 

 

This is probably not the best build out there, but I did not aim to make the best one because I wasn't anticipating I would need an awesome one for the HK factory. The difficulty throughout the factory was hard, but acceptable. At least up until the part where I entered the giant room at the end with ~10 HK-50s. I almost wanted to start cheating.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

All this bickering is fine and everything with me.....

 

...just realize that the HKs are only hard because Hassat and I did not bother with adjusting the difficulty of any characters in the factory. Their character templates were taken directly from the Xbox version. Difficulty was not tampered with - as should be since TSLRCM's goal is not to change those particular things.

 

And it's supposed to be tricky to activate the 51s... I'd say it's bad level design to allow for an "optimal" ending while not making the player earn different endings...

 

...unless you do just want to coast through the game.

[Karmanaut 1]

All this bickering is fine and everything with me.....

 

...just realize that the HKs are only hard because Hassat and I did not bother with adjusting the difficulty of any characters in the factory. Their character templates were taken directly from the Xbox version. Difficulty was not tampered with - as should be since TSLRCM's goal is not to change those particular things.

 

And it's supposed to be tricky to activate the 51s... I'd say it's bad level design to allow for an "optimal" ending while not making the player earn different endings...

 

...unless you do just want to coast through the game.

 

The difficulty of the HK factory is inconsistent with the difficulty of the rest of the game. Why not make the Ravager or Malachor more difficult? As they are, they are much easier than the HK factory, and they occur after the level.

 

It's not that hard for the casual player to reactivate HK-47 and, in time, go through three HK-50 encounters. However, once you do this, you're locked into starting that quest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way to back out of the quest, right?

 

Maybe somebody could make an independent, optional patch specifically aimed at lowering the difficulty of the level? I know you guys are busy enough as it is, but I, along with the others, would appreciate it.

[Salk 374]

Maybe somebody could make an independent, optional patch specifically aimed at lowering the difficulty of the level? I know you guys are busy enough as it is, but I, along with the others, would appreciate it.

 

I would definitely use it.

 

I guess it's just a matter of making the droids' HP considerably lower (-25%, at least).

[Hegirae 1]

I think we should differentiate between two types of difficulty here. There's "difficult" in the sense that enemies hae attacks that do an incredible amount of damage to your party, and that will most likely result in the death of many if not all of your team. Here, reloading and reloading and reloading a save is to be expected. Notice how this doesn't touch upon how much HP the attacker has, only how strong his attacks are.

 

The second definition of "difficulty" is opposite: enemies have a high number of HP, but their attacks do a normal to negligible amount of damage. Here, there's a very minute chance that you and your party will die and have to reload a save; the defeat of your enemies are inevitable, so there's no impetus to fret about your party, since there's no real danger.

 

The HK Factory would fall under the latter definition of difficulty. Enemies have high numbers of HP, but HK-47 has an even higher level than them, so there's no way in which he can die. The only problem to this scenario is that it takes bloody forever; everything seems like a chore, and you eventually want to be done with the whole thing. Frankly, it's worse than Malachor's grind, because at least there everyone died after three or so lightsaber attacks.

 

I actually really enjoyed Nar Shaddaa after T3 got the transponder codes, and Atton, T3, and Mira had to run to Akkere. Why? It was difficult, in the first sense. My finger was on the F9 key, having to quick load every minute. But you know what? It was fun; it was a challenge that I knew that I could win, I just had to change my tactics and find something that worked. If anything, I want the HK Factory to be challenging, but like the Nar Shaddaa NPC-only section.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

It was fun; it was a challenge that I knew that I could win, I just had to change my tactics and find something that worked. If anything, I want the HK Factory to be challenging, but like the Nar Shaddaa NPC-only section.

 

You miss my point. I'm not trying to cast blame and defend its difficulty. Hassat and I just weren't paying attention to that aspect of it (hell I even played through with a KillBlaster for testing reasons so it really was untested).

 

That said, I'm sure it's quite tedious and difficult to carve your way through hordes of 50s (and possibly, but hopefully not 51s). Add to that that you're controlling only 1 character that can only use ranged weapons.... that only adds to the tedium.