Thanks everyone. Glad you enjoyed it.
I finally have a small amount of free time, so I'm going to be responding to a few of the points raised in this thread in sequence.
Well we did get DeNCS out of it, so it wasn't all bad.
Having been involved in an ill-fated large modding project myself (BG2R), I have some sympathy for TSLRP. I know well the pain of lots of people clamouring for a release, but nobody willing to actually help do the work. Having observed the TSLRP drama unfold fairly passively from the outside, I think their main mistake was not making public releases from an early stage. Closed beta testing is fine and a necessity, but don't go making a big song and dance publicly about something until you are willing to release it. Doing so would have done two things. It would have dampened some of the noise from the peanut gallery, and it likely would have encouraged more people to volunteer to help.
True, although as I recall DeNCS requires a specific and long-out-of-date version of Java to run. I think JdNoa made a few other bits and pieces for TSLRP which got released separately, like DeNCS and AniCam.
Yeah, it's far from the only project to go south in this kind of way. One of the most frustrating parts of the whole saga is that there were was a small but steady stream of people over the years offering to help implement the mod, and they were all refused. Whether they actually would have stuck around, and if the project would ever have been finished that way, is probably moot, I'd guess.
I recall this epic shout out to Dashus - screen-capped from the Team Gizka forums days . . .
Pavlos' post-mortem on Team Bantha was practically read out verbatim near the end of one of the videos Xuul and I did. There's a lot of good information in that post-mortem.
I am so looking forward for the Pikmin/Balor stuff to come out in a future chapter of the M4-78 Documentary. That guy was a tool. The website for K2RP still exists! (Apparently, he never got around to removing me from the staff list after I denounced him.)
QGG's call-out stirs a distant memory. I think it's what actually provoked Dashus into telling everyone he hadn't done any modding for two months because of all that totally real sexy sex he was sexing.
Pav's post-mortem is full of good advice for people working on big projects in general, IMO.
And yeah, the Pikmin/Balor stuff will be well worth waiting for.
A few questions regarding the GenoHaradan:
What was the excuse for the Exile to go to Nar Shadda? Was he/she captured by the GenoHaradan before he could go to Telos and was taken to their base or does he/she just say "Let's go to Nar Shadda to defeat the GenoHaradan at their base we don't know where to find"?
How did they tackle Batu Rem? Since I've been working on Rem for some time now I know from experience that Batu only has two voiced lines about the GenoHaradan which on its own isn't enough and three more with no VO and two Atton line with no VO. Did they splice or did they redo his lines with a new actor? (Or did they use the two lines?)
How did they tackle Luxa's bounty hunters? Because the only evidence of their GenoHaradan involvement is the DLG they have for when you contact them on the terminal in that hospital is called "geno.dlg" I have no other evidence besides that to support the theory of them being GenoHaradan.
Where there any rewards for killing Desicuss the GenoHaradan leader? If not then I can happily announce there will at least 3 or maybe 4 amazing rewards for defeating Dessicus in my mod.
I apologize for hounding you with questions you probably won't remember but unless I can get my hands on the TSLRP leak to observe what they have your the closest thing I have to information regarding how they wanted to pull it off.
It's been the better part of nine years, but...
In TSLRP, the Exile received a summons like the summons to return to Onderon in the vanilla game. It came late in the game, and really screwed up the pacing.
I think they just added back in the cut lines for Atton and Batu Rem, I think after "no mere assassin...". Are you sure the VO for Atton isn't hidden somewhere odd? I'm sure the lines were voiced in the RP, but they may have grabbed those lines from the Xbox version or something.
I don't really remember Luxa's bounty hunters. Sorry. I'm not sure if they added a reference in there or not. I think possibly they added a reference to the alien VO for the two, and then altered one of the player responses in the dialogue with Luxa. But I can't really remember.
As I recall, the reward for beating Dessicus was decidedly underwhelming.
Hope that was helpful, but as I say, it's been a long time.
Was hoping for more behind-the-scenes forum drama, but it seems you never knew much more than regular forum users. Interesting read, thanks for sharing!
Hahaha I remember this, you were probably our biggest opponent back in the beginning. Good times
Quick clarification here, Goto was never intended to be on M4-78. I heard people mention this quite a few times, and I think the misconception comes from the fact that M4-78 and Goto's Yacht have the same puzzles, but that's not because they're connected.
The real story behind it is, Goto's Yacht was supposed to be cut out as well, until Kevin Saunders said he can design the whole area in a week. He did so by moving content he'd designed for M4-78 - which was already cut by that point - to Goto's Yacht.
No idea how Goto would fit into the GenoHaradan plot line, though.
I actually remember that, since it was so hilariously out of place. On your way to Malachor, T3 would approach you and tell you that the GenoHaradan would blow up Nar Shaddaa or something if you didn't go there and fight them.
I never really played the leak, but I know someone who probably finished it more times than any of the real beta testers
Yeah. What little we thought we knew was also possibly a lie. As an exercise in project management, it was a disaster.
I remember Lord of Hunger was worried I'd block the mod being uploaded to KotORFiles.
(I also wrote a horrible review of the very first version of M478, giving it a 5/10. ) That led to working on the various plot revisions with Sharen Thrawn before they disappeared off the map.
Re: Goto: Interesting, thanks. I've no idea how Goto and the Genoharadan fit together either. There is a line for one of his opening scenes that goes something like: "The GenoHaradan are no concern of yours". So presumably they were meant to be part of the plot at the same time.
Thanks for the shout-out Insidious, but I don't think I was involved in any of the testing process for TSLRP
Hmm. In that case, I think it must have been Miltiades who was working out the Droid Factory stuff. Maybe I confused you with him because you worked on the RCM droid factory. Apologies.
Damn, this is a long topic already... well, time to read (yes, nothing done yet). Skimmed a few posts.
Aside from hating us, I also recall you weren't fond of my about my bug reports I made for TSLRP during it's leaked beta (only about 400 entries or so). Should have had saved that list, would have saved me a lot of time on TSLRCM. Might even still be issues in I listed there but then completely forgotten about afterwards.
Really? I've completely forgotten that. Then again, my memories of the TG forum is mainly of flame wars, and "I think this thread should be locked now" copypasted everywhere.
Anyway, a few keyparts you forgot to mention.
* You mention Dashus didn't mind the leak. This however was NOT my experience, as shortly after doing so he uploaded an "update" for the game that basically broke it down entirely. Had to re-install the entire game and TSLRP due to it (thanks Dashus). Which doesn't sound like something someone who "doesn't care" would do. Actual testers got affected too since those gamebreakers started popping up in the official Bug Tracker.
I'd forgotten that. He didn't seem particularly ruffled in the limited communication I had with him.
* You say the blame felt on 90SK, but according to posts by the RPGCodex it was all due to Darth Windu (who stayed on the team), who exchanged his TSLRP code in promise of getting laid. Of course the validity of this claim got never proven, but if it was a hoax they did type up a pretty giant detailed chatlog. One Windu claimed was partially true, but faked out in the end. Anyway, that was the drama seen on the outside.
Never knew this. Windu seemed to keep that pretty quiet in the tester's forum at the time, if my memory is right. I do remember him wanting the beta team to release the mod on the grounds that we were the last people around with a connection to the original team.
* Crap hit the fan WAY before Dashus' "screw you guys, I'm getting laid" when a new trailer was released for TSLRP. Why would a trailer cause commotion? Because it was the "release trailer" and in the end it had a release date 1 year EARLIER than the video was released at. This... fell really REALLY bad with everyone, especially after outcries of "what the hell is this?" got completely ignored or sarcastically dismissed (don't recall specifically). That was really the point where the TSLRP "team" shown the world that this was leading nowhere, Dashus "but I failed everything I ever did, I will succeed at something for once!" was just the final nail in the coffin. That it was a thinly veiled "I'm getting laid, you probably not, SUCKAHS" after withholding TSLRP, refusing to release it even when giving up and all that BS definitely made us all remember him as a giant douchebag. Thanks for DeNCS, but really... that's the legacy left behind, that's what people will remember.
Again, I'd completely forgotten this.
But yeah, the legacy of Team Gizka, apart from its indirect influence on TSLRCM, wasn't great. I think the guy who made the Atton leaning animation for TSLRP pass it on to TSLRCM, or is my memory playing tricks?
It was rumored the 90SK bragged about leaking it on another forum. It was brought to my attention then, I looked it up, and the accusation seemed legit.
I do not know the answer.
I knew I'd seen something about it. Never thought it was all that likely, myself, but it's all long past now.