TSLRCM's take on Bao-Dur's endgame fate?

[I_Jedi 0]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but this section seems the most applicable.

 

I haven't completed TSLRCM 1.8 to the end yet, but I read that Bao-Dur's death when raiding the HK factory with HK-47 is not included. Proof that this was intended is here under the "Game Questions" section on Chris Avellone's blog: http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=1&showentry=120

 

Since the idea fits in the plot considering that the only time you see him after the battle of Telos is in a presumably post-mortem hologram, I suggest this form of small addon with minimal VOs if none can be found:

 

You start out on the telos landing pad before the base. Bao-Dur and HK-47 begin to move out, but military droids arrive. Bao-Dur readies his weapon, and may motion for HK-47 to enter the base. The player then sees a cutscene of HK-47 moving to enter the base while Bao-Dur begins to fight the droids and maybe a boss Tank droid. The player then gains control of Bao-Dur. Bao-Dur destroys several droids, but a cutscene plays showing Bao-Dur being fatally shot. Bao-Dur's items are returned to the player's inventory and the regular TSLRCM hk factory sequence commences.

 

Such an addon would clearly wrap up Bao-Dur's fate, and fits within the TSLRCM plotline:

 

Grenn notices Bao-Dur is gone.

Bao-Dur's failure to appear in the Malachor fight would make sense.

Kreia would not be able to know he died because she can't see any thoughts from him when he was alive. This still would hold true if he's dead.

This would be the reason he sent his remote to reactivate the Shadow generator instead of doing it himself.

Exile and co. would not know this because no one in the party witnessed his death except HK-47. HK-47 does not meet back up with the party before the end of the game to inform them in TSLRCM.

 

Finally, this would restore intended content. What do you think of this proposed addition?

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Myself (and a few other unnamed associates) had concluded it would be best that Bao-Dur's death would be best occurring in the name of saving Telos' safety. As in he would give his life to save Telos.

 

Not only was Bao-Dur using Telos as his sort of... path to redemption, but it shows his dedication to the restoration of the rest of the galaxy - which makes sense, at least in terms of light-sided Bao-Dur.

 

Either way, the Bao-Dur has to die regardless of whether the HK factory mission is triggered which, from my last recollection, it is possible that it is skipped.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

And I disagree.

Chris Avallone just answered a question, but like the "there probably should be 2 more Atris scenes" it's really doubtful it's an accurate recollection and should be that way in the game.

 

Not sure why people are so adamant on killing Bao-Dur, rather than leaving his fate in "the open", which is best. His indication that he knows about the Ravager and all does assume he survived the attack on Telos atleast...

[Dylan 0]

And I disagree.

Chris Avallone just answered a question, but like the "there probably should be 2 more Atris scenes" it's really doubtful it's an accurate recollection and should be that way in the game.

 

Not sure why people are so adamant on killing Bao-Dur, rather than leaving his fate in "the open", which is best. His indication that he knows about the Ravager and all does assume he survived the attack on Telos atleast...

Well let's think about this for a second. Maybe Chris Avellone was right about him going to the HK factory where his death takes place BUT, if the PC does not trigger the HK factory quest, the game plays out the way it does now. Which also explains why Bao-Dur has lines about the Ravager. If he does go to the HK factory, the line "Make my sacrifice matter" should be used at Malachor (or something, I'm not really quite sure where this line would happen anyway.) and if not it should play out as it is in Vanilla.

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

Which also explains why Bao-Dur has lines about the Ravager. If he does go to the HK factory, the line "Make my sacrifice matter" should be used at Malachor (or something, I'm not really quite sure where this line would happen anyway.) and if not it should play out as it is in Vanilla.

 

It was only a matter of time before that line came up in conversation again. If you can find that line without music behind it, be sure to let us know.

[Karmanaut 1]

And I disagree.

Chris Avallone just answered a question, but like the "there probably should be 2 more Atris scenes" it's really doubtful it's an accurate recollection and should be that way in the game.

 

Not sure why people are so adamant on killing Bao-Dur, rather than leaving his fate in "the open", which is best. His indication that he knows about the Ravager and all does assume he survived the attack on Telos atleast...

 

Chris Avellone said it himself. What more do you need than a direct quote from the head of the game himself? It's different from his thoughts on the Atris line because he said "probably", where he's pretty direct about Bao-Dur's fate.

 

I really appreciate all the work put into TSLRCM, and I could easily live without anything that would insert Bao-Dur's death into the game. However, based on existing content within the game, cut content, and, well, you know, Chris Avellone himself, I think it's clear that Bao-Dur's fate was not originally intended to be left "open." A patch that would somehow incorporate Bao-Dur's death would add more closure to the game. We get closure from every character in the game except Bao-Dur, and it makes absolutely no sense how Darth Traya is able to correctly predict thousands of years into the future, yet can't predict the immediate fate of a lone Zabrak.

 

If the player does not fulfil the requirements to gain access to the HK factory, Bao-Dur can just die in a failed attempt at finding it/gaining access to it. If the player did fulfil the requirements, then Bao-Dur dies to get HK-47 in.

[Darth Paulus 9]

A patch that would somehow incorporate Bao-Dur's death would add more closure to the game. We get closure from every character in the game except Bao-Dur, and it makes absolutely no sense how Darth Traya is able to correctly predict thousands of years into the future, yet can't predict the immediate fate of a lone Zabrak.

 

True, but we have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE whatsoever as to how Bao-Dur EXACTLY died. So any attempt to add this content would be a total fanon modification. As such it does not belong to TSLRCM project intention.

 

C'mon, guys, face the truth - this content simply CANNOT be restored nor re-created.

[Karmanaut 1]

True, but we have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE whatsoever as to how Bao-Dur EXACTLY died. So any attempt to add this content would be a total fanon modification. As such it does not belong to TSLRCM project intention.

 

C'mon, guys, face the truth - this content simply CANNOT be restored nor re-created.

 

You have a point, but how exactly he dies isn't really the matter. I'd rather have better-written fanon that provides closure in the game than poorly-written, vague canon.

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

Feel free to make your own mod, if you'd like.

 

Edit: After posting the above, I realized that it may have appeared that I was being snarky. This isn't the case.

 

In the past, I've come up with my own suggestion for Bao-Dur's final fate. However, there are a few factors working against it.

 

1) Lack of lines relating to his final fate: The lines that come from remote, those don't really specify how he met his end, do they? Trust me, I know all about the "Make my sacrifice matter" as I one of the few that actually saved the voice over actor preview that Lucasarts had on their now defunct website. However, that whole sound file - including Bao-Dur's line - has various KotOR2 music behind it. It's pretty much impossible to separate the voice from that music.

 

2) Lack of developer's notes on his fate: There's none in the game. If there were they would have been found.

 

3) Lack of specifics about Bao-Dur's fate from Chris Avellone: He recalls Bao-Dur would die on Telos. Well, he doesn't have much to add beyond that.

 

If there are no sound files (other than reusing previously used ones) to the mod, if there are no developer notes in the game, and the writer isn't nailing down what happened to him, there's really nothing to work with.

 

TSLRCM - in all of its versions - was designed to be restoration mod. There's not enough to restore here.

 

However, I'm not averse to the idea that someone might look through the existing sound files and make something work. Maybe that person is you. However, you're hope that this will be added into the TSLRCM package is falling on deaf ears.

 

If you do create a mod, I'd be glad to hear about it - in the Works in Progress section rather than here though.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

AFAIK Avallone's interview about Bao-Dur was still filled with perhaps and maybe's... [finish Kreia quote here]

 

And as SH says, the "sacrifice" line isn't in the gamefiles. Which is strange if it was planned and recorded and all, seeing how even Mira and Atton's VO from the E3 is in the gamefiles... and a whole bunch more (otherwise, no TSLRCM).

[Karmanaut 1]

Feel free to make your own mod, if you'd like.

 

Edit: After posting the above, I realized that it may have appeared that I was being snarky. This isn't the case.

 

In the past, I've come up with my own suggestion for Bao-Dur's final fate. However, there are a few factors working against it.

 

1) Lack of lines relating to his final fate: The lines that come from remote, those don't really specify how he met his end, do they? Trust me, I know all about the "Make my sacrifice matter" as I one of the few that actually saved the voice over actor preview that Lucasarts had on their now defunct website. However, that whole sound file - including Bao-Dur's line - has various KotOR2 music behind it. It's pretty much impossible to separate the voice from that music.

 

2) Lack of developer's notes on his fate: There's none in the game. If there were they would have been found.

 

3) Lack of specifics about Bao-Dur's fate from Chris Avellone: He recalls Bao-Dur would die on Telos. Well, he doesn't have much to add beyond that.

 

If there are no sound files (other than reusing previously used ones) to the mod, if there are no developer notes in the game, and the writer isn't nailing down what happened to him, there's really nothing to work with.

 

TSLRCM - in all of its versions - was designed to be restoration mod. There's not enough to restore here.

 

However, I'm not averse to the idea that someone might look through the existing sound files and make something work. Maybe that person is you. However, you're hope that this will be added into the TSLRCM package is falling on deaf ears.

 

If you do create a mod, I'd be glad to hear about it - in the Works in Progress section rather than here though.

 

I would understand even if you were intending to sound snarky though, after all the hard work that the team here put into TSLRCM. Believe me, if I had the willpower and ability I would attempt my own mod. What the modders do here with what tools they have is pretty amazing.

[evil q 16]

I'd be willing to settle for something simpler, like having him captured with the rest of the party on Malachor.

 

There's no VO for it, but it could be done with a little creativity. Maybe he gets separated from the rest of the party and Sion and his assassins capture him in a little cutscene with the appropriate music but no VO; or maybe he is with the group when they confront Kreia and he simply has little or nothing to say. He is sort of the quiet type, after all.

 

The above would be far simpler to do and less awkward than having him die on Telos, since we have no clue how that's even supposed to happen, and that gaping plot hole would still be filled.

 

 

 

And SH, please don't use the word "snarky". You sound like Jae Onasi. [/barf]

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

I'd be willing to settle for something simpler, like having him captured with the rest of the party on Malachor.

 

There's no VO for it, but it could be done with a little creativity. Maybe he gets separated from the rest of the party and Sion and his assassins capture him in a little cutscene with the appropriate music but no VO; or maybe he is with the group when they confront Kreia and he simply has little or nothing to say. He is sort of the quiet type, after all.

 

The above would be far simpler to do and less awkward than having him die on Telos, since we have no clue how that's even supposed to happen, and that gaping plot hole would still be filled.

 

Or just show him unconscious on the Hawk. (Someone had to help fix the ship when it fell after that earthquake cutscene besides T3-M4 who's also conveniently missing. No one remembers he's not around.) I think he has a "Let's get to work" line or something along those lines . . .

 

He could also appear dead on the Ebon Hawk too. T3 does his sad "Wooooooooo" noise and then a fade out.

 

You could have set as a variable that folks could choose in KSE (is it called a boolean?) then anyone can choose if Bao-Dur lives or dies. "0" for dead, "1" for alive...

 

The player could have "power . . . unlimited power!"

[evil q 16]

You could have set as a variable that folks could choose in KSE (is it called a boolean?) then anyone can choose if Bao-Dur lives or dies. "0" for dead, "1" for alive...

 

The player could have "power . . . unlimited power!"

^Even better. He's unconscious, so that could account for the remote's instructional holo triggering and sending him on the mission to activate the reactors.

 

It ties up that loose end rather nicely, and I don't think that it could be done any simpler than that.

 

 

Not really cut content, so it's not within the scope of TSLRCM, but it would make a good mod that anyone familiar with TSL would appreciate.

[Fallen Guardian 27]

Or just show him unconscious on the Hawk. (Someone had to help fix the ship when it fell after that earthquake cutscene besides T3-M4 who's also conveniently missing. No one remembers he's not around.) I think he has a "Let's get to work" line or something along those lines . . .

Huh, sounds like a pretty cool idea. Damn me, now I'm thinking of ways this could be done and what Bao-Dur could say...

 

Ahk, I might take a shot at it but no promises.

[evil q 16]

That'd be great.

 

I'd have done something like what we've been talking about myself years ago, but, aside from simple item tweaks or hacking someone else's scripts, I can't mod for ****.

[Darth Paulus 9]

Or just show him unconscious on the Hawk. (Someone had to help fix the ship when it fell after that earthquake cutscene besides T3-M4 who's also conveniently missing. No one remembers he's not around.) I think he has a "Let's get to work" line or something along those lines . . .

 

Great idea!!! Love it! :-)

 

If he would stay in the coma, after the earthquake and fall of the Ebon Hawk that would explain Traya's inability to predict his fate (you know, neither alive or dead). Also some closure is needed for T3-M4 - he is presumably the one who flies the Hawk out of the abyss. So this addition would be win-win. Something like Mass Effect 3's Extended Cut... :-)

[I_Jedi 0]

Great idea!!! Love it! :-)

 

If he would stay in the coma, after the earthquake and fall of the Ebon Hawk that would explain Traya's inability to predict his fate (you know, neither alive or dead). Also some closure is needed for T3-M4 - he is presumably the one who flies the Hawk out of the abyss. So this addition would be win-win. Something like Mass Effect 3's Extended Cut... :-)

 

This seems like a good alternative. I forgot about T3.

[Meatbag Exterminator 3]

Great idea!!! Love it! :-)

 

If he would stay in the coma, after the earthquake and fall of the Ebon Hawk that would explain Traya's inability to predict his fate (you know, neither alive or dead). Also some closure is needed for T3-M4 - he is presumably the one who flies the Hawk out of the abyss. So this addition would be win-win. Something like Mass Effect 3's Extended Cut... :-)

 

 

Yeah, the only reason anyone knows T3 is alive is "Revan". It would be great to have some in-game confirmation.

 

But even if Bao-Dur didn't fall into a coma, like stated above Kreia was never able to sense him in the first place, thus leaving her unable to predict his or the Droids future.

 

Edit: Maybe it would work if T3 and Bao were in the Ebon Hawk module from the prolouge, just in a part where you can't see outside of it.

[Karmanaut 1]

I'd be willing to settle for something simpler, like having him captured with the rest of the party on Malachor.

 

There's no VO for it, but it could be done with a little creativity. Maybe he gets separated from the rest of the party and Sion and his assassins capture him in a little cutscene with the appropriate music but no VO; or maybe he is with the group when they confront Kreia and he simply has little or nothing to say. He is sort of the quiet type, after all.

 

The above would be far simpler to do and less awkward than having him die on Telos, since we have no clue how that's even supposed to happen, and that gaping plot hole would still be filled.

 

 

 

And SH, please don't use the word "snarky". You sound like Jae Onasi. [/barf]

 

 

As VarsityPuppet said, if Bao-Dur's death is to be seen in-game, it would be best to have his death take place during the Battle of Telos. In my opinion this makes the most sense thematically.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

explain Traya's inability to predict his fate

That's already explained ingame during the "mind reading" lesson...

 

The reasons why Bao-Dur *should die* get thinner and thinner here... :/

[Cair 1]

Or just show him unconscious on the Hawk. (Someone had to help fix the ship when it fell after that earthquake cutscene besides T3-M4 who's also conveniently missing. No one remembers he's not around.) I think he has a "Let's get to work" line or something along those lines . . .

 

 

Besides... that would explain the magical reconstruction of the Ebon Hawk from "spatacraaackagamb I'm fallin apart" to "Perfectly funtional and running at warp speed!"

[Dylan 0]

The idea of him being unconscious on the Hawk would tie up pretty much everything I found really confusing about Malachor such as the Holo of him to his remote, where T3 had gone, and how the Hawk got repaired while at the same time keeping his fate open.

 

Maybe he was too hurt to go out so he sent his remote out. This *WOULD* be where the "Make my sacrifice matter" line would play but since you say it has music in the background, there's no restoring it unless someone figures out how to isolate it.

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

In my opinion ...

 

Your opinion is noted.

 

As VarsityPuppet said, if Bao-Dur's death is to be seen in-game, it would be best to have his death take place during the Battle of Telos.

 

Unless he's offering to make it - which he wouldn't since he's retired - I'm thinking that going with the option that folks are responding to and apparently is easier to add in is probably way to go. And that's my opinion.

[Karmanaut 1]

Your opinion is noted.

 

 

 

Unless he's offering to make it - which he wouldn't since he's retired - I'm thinking that going with the option that folks are responding to and apparently is easier to add in is probably way to go.

 

I'm well aware that he is retired, I was just simply agreeing with him on how his death should be handled if it were to be modded in.

 

 

And that's my opinion.

 

Uhh.. your opinion is noted too?