Star Wars Episode VII Discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

[Doctor Evil 51]

no... we are all fustrated because they rehashed ANH story line

 

I said it was added... and just because it had a superweapon doesn't mean it's a rehash of the ANH story line. They may have borrowed several elements, but not to the dramatic extent that you're claiming it did, and the movie managed it and felt fresh. Like I said, if you're so frustrated with this using a superweapon, explain to me why you're not frustrated with ROTJ doing the same thing, or Kotor revolving around a giant mguffin device than can be considered a superweapon, or the thousands of other things in EU which also revolved around superweapons? You still haven't answered me on this

 

You say how it didn't ruin the movie for you and yet you're obsessing on this one "flaw"

[Haveayap 127]

I said it was added... and just because it had a superweapon doesn't mean it's a rehash of the ANH story line. They may have borrowed several elements, but not to the dramatic extent that you're claiming it did. Like I said, if you're so frustrated with this using a superweapon, explain to me why you're not frustrated with ROTJ doing the same thing, or Kotor revolving around a giant mguffin device than can be considered a superweapon, or the thousands of other things in EU which also revolved around superweapons? You still haven't answered me on this

 

You say how it didn't ruin the movie for you and yet you're obsessing on this one "flaw"

The superweapon got boring along time ago, I didnt mind the Starforge because it was more of a space station than a weapon, and the super weapons werent that great in most of the other EU

[Doctor Evil 51]

The superweapon got boring along time ago, I didnt mind the Starforge because it was more of a space station than a weapon, and the super weapons werent that great in most of the other EU

 

Except that it still served a similar role in the plot

[1Leonard 134]

Hey guys can explain to me, who are the parents of Rey?

 

Daughter of Luke or Granddaughter of Obi-Wan Kenobi probably.

Or both.

 

Though I hope she is of random descent and not connected to the Skywalker family by blood at all.

[8t88 1]

Your point was that it used '...the grandaddy of cliched story-lines...' and thus took something we'd seen and it worked well. My point about the context was meant to illustrate that it actually wasn't something we'd seen, or at least, not something seen in that era of cinema and that's why it worked. It defied expectations.

 

Still seeming irrelevant. I was arguing cliched storylines, regardless of place in time. Though I understand your train of thought.

 

 

And am I to suppose that you are an erudite when it comes to knowledge of the EU?...

 

How about we message each other or start a new thread before this gets even more off-topic?

 

As for Rebels, you've got to be joking. I want the EU to be used, not massacred by its inclusion in this IMO sad-excuse for a television show!

 

Technically it is. The idea of the Inquisitors have been copied almost exactly from the EU. So, essentially it is being "used."

 

 

Also KOTOR was fine since it was, well, the first...

 

*Cough* Darksaber and the Suncrusher  *Cough*

 

Frankly, I see the whole superweapon thing as more of a problem with Star Wars as a whole then just the new movie. 

 

Come to think of it, KOTOR 1  borrowed a lot of plot points from the original trilogy. Probably one of the reasons I like TSL better, not to say KOTOR 1's bad or anything.

 

Hey guys can explain to me, who are the parents of Rey?

 

I heard, (despite my best efforts,) that it was Han and Leia. Could be wrong though.

 

[milestails 264]

She looks more like Satele Shan than Bastila.

 

Talk about superweapns, don't forget the Dark Reaper.

[Mutilator57 140]

Still seeming irrelevant. I was arguing cliched storylines, regardless of place in time. Though I understand your train of thought.

No, relevant above all. My point was that it wasn't a cliched story, hence my reference and emphasis on context. It only seems cliched in retrospect because in all the years subsequent, these kinds of stories have become more popular.

 

How about we message each other or start a new thread before this gets even more off-topic?

It wasn't my intention to start a 'whose the bigger SW fan argument'; it was your patronising tone which I was objecting to.

 

Technically it is. The idea of the Inquisitors have been copied almost exactly from the EU. So, essentially it is being "used."

Indeed it has. But I preferred the way they were depicted in the EU rather than their silly characterisation in Rebels. Nevertheless, my point was yes they may have used the EU, but have they used it well? I think not. Merely using the EU (poorly I might add) is not enough to justify their rubbishing of it.

 

Except that it still served a similar role in the plot

On the contrary, I'd argue that it was far less important in the KotOR plot. Even Master Vandar in the endgame states that destroying the Star Forge is the secondary objective to stopping the Sith, destroying Malak being the first. Similarities to ANH? Yes. 'Rehash' or 'effective clone' like TFA? Most certainly not.

[8t88 1]

No, relevant above all. My point was that it wasn't a cliched story, hence my reference and emphasis on context. It only seems cliched in retrospect because in all the years subsequent, these kinds of stories have become more popular.

 

I remember quite a few movies following the same formula during the fifties and sixties.

 

 

 

It wasn't my intention to start a 'whose the bigger SW fan argument'; it was your patronising tone which I was objecting to.

 

I wasn't trying to be patronizing and you don't need an in depth knowledge of the EU to be a big fan of Star Wars. You seemed to be wanting to continue the discussion rather then object to my tone, so I said lets continue this in PMs so the thread isn't cluttered.

[Mutilator57 140]

I remember quite a few movies following the same formula during the fifties and sixties.

 

I wasn't trying to be patronizing and you don't need an in depth knowledge of the EU to be a big fan of Star Wars. You seemed to be wanting to continue the discussion rather then object to my tone, so I said lets continue this in PMs so the thread isn't cluttered.

Well I can't attest to the veracity of those claims as I wasn't around then. For my ally are the numerous sources which reinforce my position. The most clear of which was that behind the scenes documentary on the OT done back in 04 where it is repeatedly mentioned that the cinema of the 70s was what I said it was like. Nevertheless, I never said it had never been done, I actually specifically mentioned that it had been used in the preceding decades, was left and then returned with Star Wars. The point I was trying to make is that it is all about CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT! That in the context of the 70s it wasn't a cliched story.

 

I wasn't trying to be patronizing and you don't need an in depth knowledge of the EU to be a big fan of Star Wars. You seemed to be wanting to continue the discussion rather then object to my tone, so I said lets continue this in PMs so the thread isn't cluttered.

Of course you weren't but that's how I interpreted it.

[zXCollinsXz 3]

I'm not sure what is hard to understand, it's really simple from what I'm reading. The context of the film industry in the 70's was vastly different to what it is now and back then having a hero development story was different to the norm of an anti-hero.

[Doctor Evil 51]

On the contrary, I'd argue that it was far less important in the KotOR plot. Even Master Vandar in the endgame states that destroying the Star Forge is the secondary objective to stopping the Sith, destroying Malak being the first. Similarities to ANH? Yes. 'Rehash' or 'effective clone' like TFA? Most certainly not.

 

Are...you...kidding...me? The Star Forge WAS the key to stopping the sith because it was behind their power. If it wasn't destroyed then the sith could just keep on building bigger and bigger fleets. The whole point of finding the star maps was to discover the LOCATION OF THE STAR FORGE. Yeah, definitely a minor footnote in the kotor plot. I think you need to play the game again and take off those rose-colored glasses

 

Can we actually get back to discussing TFA and the new trilogy rather than "who's EU dick is bigger" discussion? EU is no longer canon, and it won't be. Get over it, if you're gonna complain, create a thread about it but for crying out loud this topic is about TFA

[zXCollinsXz 3]

Are...you...kidding...me? The Star Forge WAS the key to stopping the sith because it was behind their power. If it wasn't destroyed then the sith could just keep on building bigger and bigger fleets. The whole point of finding the star maps was to discover the LOCATION OF THE STAR FORGE. Yeah, definitely a minor footnote in the kotor plot. I think you need to play the game again and take off those rose-colored glasses

 

Can we actually get back to discussing TFA and the new trilogy rather than "who's EU dick is bigger" discussion? EU is no longer canon, and it won't be. Get over it, if you're gonna complain, create a thread about it but for crying out loud this topic is about TFA

 

I find it odd how someone is on what would be considered an EU stronghold and goes on and on about how the EU was crap. Especially on what is for the most part a KOTOR mod site. 

[Haveayap 127]

Are...you...kidding...me? The Star Forge WAS the key to stopping the sith because it was behind their power. If it wasn't destroyed then the sith could just keep on building bigger and bigger fleets. The whole point of finding the star maps was to discover the LOCATION OF THE STAR FORGE. Yeah, definitely a minor footnote in the kotor plot. I think you need to play the game again and take off those rose-colored glasses

 

Can we actually get back to discussing TFA and the new trilogy rather than "who's EU dick is bigger" discussion? EU is no longer canon, and it won't be. Get over it, if you're gonna complain, create a thread about it but for crying out loud this topic is about TFA

yes, lets get back to discussing all of the EU content JJ ripped of to make his rehash of ANH

[Mutilator57 140]

Are...you...kidding...me? The Star Forge WAS the key to stopping the sith because it was behind their power. If it wasn't destroyed then the sith could just keep on building bigger and bigger fleets. The whole point of finding the star maps was to discover the LOCATION OF THE STAR FORGE. Yeah, definitely a minor footnote in the kotor plot. I think you need to play the game again and take off those rose-colored glasses

 

Can we actually get back to discussing TFA and the new trilogy rather than "who's EU dick is bigger" discussion? EU is no longer canon, and it won't be. Get over it, if you're gonna complain, create a thread about it but for crying out loud this topic is about TFA

This is getting off-track. This will be my last response on the issue, case closed. I never said it was a minor footnote, you need to to go back and read what I said and stop overreacting to what I say. Of course it is important, my point was that it was not analogous to ANH since there were other plot elements that took precedence and is even stated in the game itself!. You don't believe me in this? Fine, I'll quote directly from the game. 'Bastila's power could help you win this battle admiral, but it will mean nothing if Malak escapes. Destroying the Star Forge is secondary to stopping the Sith threat once and for all'.

[Doctor Evil 51]

Now it's JJ ripped this off from EU, this is hilarious

 

I'm done here, lemme know when you all want to actually discuss stuff and what happened in the movie and what will happen rather than bitch about it like entitled children, and not go in a circle about it either.

 

Have a nice day kids

[8t88 1]

Context has nothing to do with it, in fact most of the audience between twenty and thirty had probably seen some movies sharing the same plot points, and its a bit much to expect kids to have not read story books about Princesses being saved and farmboys rising to greatness.

 

Cliche means a lack of original thought, and most if not all stories have at least a few. Context doesn't matter in the slightest because all you have to do is take it from another story, regardless of its age. Star Wars just so happened to take a lot of them associated with fantasy, one of the reasons it endeared itself to me.

 

 

I find it odd how someone is on what would be considered an EU stronghold and goes on and on about how the EU was crap. Especially on what is for the most part a KOTOR mod site. 

 

Well, its not exactly about that. Take for example TSLRCM. Virtually none of the things it restores were considered canon, and the reason its not in the base game is because Lucasarts wanted Obsidian to complete it on a deadline. Doesn't that strike you as just the least bit unfair?

 

And the assumption that we're saying the EU was crud is an exaggeration, we're just saying that it has a lot more issues then people make it out to have.

[zXCollinsXz 3]

I was referring to when instances such as when Doctor Evil said "and EU wasn't that great to begin with, post ROTJ or Old republic. TOR was utter garbage and ruined the whole Kotor franchise"

 

Or when he said "and LMAO EU was a pile of trash"

 

I believe it did have issues yes but the large majority of it was good. 

 

 

Also what do you mean with "it's not exactly about that".

 

Finally context is extremely important as it gives us an understanding of the nature of the film industry at the time, at the time movies were about anti-heroes rather than what could be considered boy saves princess and saves the day. 

[Mutilator57 140]

And the assumption that we're saying the EU was crud is an exaggeration, we're just saying that it has a lot more issues then people make it out to have.

 

I suppose I am exaggerating this too huh?

 

LMAO EU was a pile of trash other than the jedi knight series and Thrawn as you said. Emperor Reborn was about as intelligent as dumb and dumber.

 

*EDIT* Obviously Doctor Evil has taken a personal affront to what I have said with purported attacks on his 'integrity' as he puts it. To avoid further hurting his feelings and to spare myself from his repeated arrogance and condescension (of which there are so many examples I could fill this thread to the brim) I consider the matter closed. Evidently, we will never come to an agreement and it is pointless to argue any further.

 

Lmao feelings? I'm just irritated because you're using faulty evidence of what I said and misquoting me.

 

Whose the angry one now? Your comments speak for themselves. I always quote fully and directly from what you said, if you have to clarify what you were talking about then your original comments were faulty to begin with.

 

 Glad you're not responding to me directly though, proves me right yet again

 

Well aren't you the arrogant one! I think this speaks for itself.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Mutilator57

[Doctor Evil 51]

And I suppose I am exaggerating this too huh?

 

You are, this is my last comment to you to defend my integrity

 

I was referring to post ROTJ EU, which at the time I believed EU regarded anything after ROTJ, while I TOLD YOU but let's totally forget about that.

 

Excuse me, by EU I meant everything after Return of the Jedi EU, since that's what I assumed EU generally referred to. While I said borrows heavily, I meant in terms of how it was borrowed rather than how much as borrowed, but borrows nonetheless. I'll try to be more clear next time.

 

Thanks for proving me right, and as for TOR I meant the Old Republic, not KOTOR or II, please actually try reading.

 

Hopefully you will eventually return to discussing the topic at hand, until then I'm not gonna bother respond to what I see is somebody upset because their comic books no longer are canon and thus are trashing the new material because of it. Can't believe you got that offended because I don't care for it

Edited December 22, 2015 by Doctor Evil

[Doctor Evil 51]

Lmao feelings? I'm just irritated because you're using faulty evidence of what I said and misquoting me.  If there's anyone who has their feelings hurt, it's you for constantly making this topic about EU. Glad you're not responding to me directly though, proves me right yet again

[Doctor Evil 51]

K bud, keep on telling yourself that while you keep editing your post with what I said later as you think it's so clever, I'm not gonna engage you in a flame war, but feel free to keep raging because I said something about EU that made you mad

 

AAANNYYYWAYYY I'm gonna bring this baby back to what it's meant to be about: Episode VII

 

Gotta say, one of the best scenes in the movie was Poe Dameron taking out all those Tie Fighters like nobody's business. If anything, he could give Luke a run for his money.

[Haveayap 127]

K bud, keep on telling yourself that while you keep editing your post with what I said later as you think it's so clever, I'm not gonna engage you in a flame war, but feel free to keep raging because I said something about EU that made you mad

 

AAANNYYYWAYYY I'm gonna bring this baby back to what it's meant to be about: Episode VII

 

Gotta say, one of the best scenes in the movie was Poe Dameron taking out all those Tie Fighters like nobody's business. If anything, he could give Luke a run for his money.

My favorite scene was when Ben kenobi... Oops, I mean Han solo dies, than they blew up the deathstar (bad memory sorry, I meant the star killer).

 

My other favorite scene was when their was a fight over Jakku (or was it tatooine), than after Finn and poe crash, Luke (Rey sorry, geez my memories bad) finds a droid named R2-D2 with important details. Than Finn and poe must rescue the damsel in distress and save the day

[Doctor Evil 51]

Gr8 b8 M8

 

speaking of droids, BB-8 beats 3p0 for best comedic relief droid

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

My favorite scene was when Ben kenobi... Oops, I mean Han solo dies, than they blew up the deathstar (bad memory sorry, I meant the star killer).

 

My other favorite scene was when their was a fight over Jakku (or was it tatooine), than after Finn and poe crash, Luke (Rey sorry, geez my memories bad) finds a droid named R2-D2 with important details. Than Finn and poe must rescue the damsel in distress and save the day

Are these actually your favorite scenes or is this just another thing where TFA is the exact same as ANH?

 

 

Just wanted to check.

 

 

Gr8 b8 M8

 

speaking of droids, BB-8 beats 3p0 for best comedic relief droid

 

Whaaaat? His mishaps in the Droid Factory in Episode II were hilarious though!!!

[Doctor Evil 51]

Whaaaat? His mishaps in the Droid Factory in Episode II were hilarious though!!!

 

TBQH Episode II i've kind of wanted to forget, thus it's mostly remembered in bouts of alcohol, but I do remember laughing at that segmet. I

 

BB-8 with that scene on the thumbs up though got me, it was great,

 

Comedy in this movie overall was well executed, but then they had the MCU guys to help em out