KOTOR or KOTOR 2?

[Billop 10]

Well i was wondering what everyones favourite was? I know its gonna be a bit bias as this is a forum for a KOTOR 2 mod, lol.

 

Anyway my favourite is...KOTOR 2. KOTOR 1 is amazing but KOTOR 2 just feels so much bigger and less repetitive. Ill admit KOTOR 2 does have some annoying moments compared to KOTOR 1 (Peragus is just nothing compared to Taris), but aside from the ending KOTOR 2 has a better story, better characters and more interesting gameplay.

 

Of course this is just my opinion. Im not ragging on Bioware, i got Platinum on Dragon Age for the PS3 (Getting Platinum means getting all trophies which, in Dragon Age, means finishing the game about 8 times). I've also preordered Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2 for the PS3. I just prefer KOTOR 2...i guess anyway. Its a hard choice. Whats your fave?

Edited November 12, 2010 by Billop

[Tricky 10]

Obsidian has always been the better writer. It made up for a great number of technical flaws when Kotor 2 was released.

[Nicknacks 0]

KOTOR 2 all the way. I love the cynacism in the writing, particularly embodied in the character of Kreia, and I like the companions more. Well, that is to say I enjoy seeing them do things, not that they're more likeable (Carth's my fave. Hnnn!) That said, sometimes you get the sense that Avellone was hating on the universe a bit, which fair enough, his perogative and all that, but it comes across as a little bitter.

 

I really do like -- and this might be a little unpopular of an opinion, but -- I really do like the way that it adds a whole lot of ambiguity to the ending of KOTOR. That said, KOTOR 2 was only ever very good because it was standing on the shoulders of KOTOR original recipe. They're both good CRPGs.

[DarthRevan789 10]

KotOR 2, it's a much more dense and less "good guys vs bad guys" story than K1.

 

Bastila and Carth are irritating in K1, K2 had Kreia, who was an outstanding character.

[Jacobss 0]

I agree. KOTOR 2 had a different approach. It's more mature and better.

[Mandalore 61]

I have to say that I agree with the fact that KotOR 2 does have a better storyline.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

KOTOR2, hands down.

Otherwise I wouldn't be here, not?

[Working Class Hero 12]

TSL, by far. Kotor is cute, but Tsl had a deep impact on me.

[shadow3514 10]

KotOR 2

Better Characters IMHO.

[Hank 0]

K2, no contest. K1 was typical Bioware crap writing/story. K2 was refreshing, to say the least.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Well, asking on this forum you're bound to get an answer biased in favor of Kotor 2 .

 

I think both games are very good. I rate Kotor 2 highly but much of that decision is based on its potential - had the game been polished off, it would have been a masterpiece, one of the very best games ever; as it happens, it's an inferior brother to Planescape Torment in my eyes. It did have better writing and more interesting characters than K1 overall (compare Hanharr vs Zalbarr). It had Kreia, the best written character in the history of all computer gaming, Atton, the former assassin and sadist (the dialog where he gets serious and angry as you talk to him about his past was just delicious), Bao-Dur, the soft-spoken badass with a history, Hanharr, the psycho with a curious worldview... even HK is better in K2 than K1, even more so now that the Factory has been restored. And as has been said, K2 had more interesting and mature themes and a less black and white morality.

 

Suffice it to say when I discovered Scorchy's Let's Play of the game - the original Something Awful thread, which had something like 80 pages to it - I read it all in one go.

 

On the other hand, you have two issues. One is the bugs and the unfinished content, which even TSLRCM will never be able to fix entirely because of lacking audio files. Kotor 1 is just more polished. Kotor 2 had more potential that only came close to realisation with TSLRCM (though, again, it will never be fully realised).

 

The other thing is that Kotor 2 isn't a very good Star Wars game. Kotor 1 pays off a good deal more if you're looking for a game that lets you play as one of the Jedi of the ancient order which "were the guardians of peace and justice in the Republic for a thousand generations", and face off against the Sith of old. It has typical Star Wars morality and a typical Star Wars plot and characters. A black and white morality isn't necessarily a bad thing, if executed well, the original Star Wars pretty much had it and it's a classic. Kotor 1 does execute it rather well, too. Kotor 2 introduces themes and ideas and the way it handles the Force that makes things interesting in its own right, but as a Star Wars story it's a bit off. This doesn't really bother me, but I imagine it explains all the SW fans whom you hear praising K1 over K2 because K2 didn't pay off on their expectations.

 

I recently replayed Kotor 1, and it's very enjoyable. Paradoxically, I enjoy K1 more after playing K2, due to the retconning of Revan which makes me aware of just how radically awesome this character I am playing is. In K1, everyone notices your strength and is in awe of your history, but in the end you still kind of feel like a pawn (why was there no identity crisis after Revan realizes he's been mindwiped? why is there no questioning as to whether his redemption counts/is really his choice, if he's LS?). On the other hand Revan shines more in his reflection through HK-47, Atton, Kreia and Mandalore than he does in his own game, as the true manipulator with a great understanding of people and of war. If you pay attention to the echoes of his manipulations, you realize just how much he made everyone his bitch, including the Exile and even Kreia.

 

One thing I really prefer about Kotor 1 than 2 is the combat balance. It seems to me there is less level-scaling in K1, and more finely-tuned balance which they were able to do due to the level 20 restriction. The level restriction also makes you plan your character more strategically, you don't end up with a gazillion spells like a level 26 Consular in K2 but you have to choose wisely. Force Storm isn't as broken as in K2, since it caps to effectively half the power it has in K2. And it is very possible to run out of Force Points in fights, especially if you take on the Star Forge with a less than optimal party, and are playing a Force-oriented char rather than a Guardian. Good luck running out of FP in K2, once you're past the early levels...

 

Overall I rate K2 higher than K1, but ultimately they are different games, both very good.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Ill admit KOTOR 2 does have some annoying moments compared to KOTOR 1 (Peragus is just nothing compared to Taris)

 

I'll just add that I strongly disagree with this. Boring generic planet with things like the Promised Land plot? Meh, it'll do, but get me to my Jedi levels soon pls. A horror survival level/puzzle with apocalyptic logs in every terminal, a mastermind assassin droid who himself is an inferior copy of our favorite badass droid, taking out a few dozen people without anyone suspecting, and yet almost cackling with glee as he talks to you about it? Hell yeah.

 

Sure, it -looks- a bit drab and is fairly empty of characters (except a lot of dead ones on the holos), but thematically I loved it a great deal more. Taris vs Telos Citadel Station on the other hand...

[Destin Folios 0]

Actually when I saw all of the missing content from KOTOR 2, I was thinking to myself "I should have bought the first one instead......" And for a long time that thought stayed at the back of my head as I progressed, at level 50, to Dantooine. Then I luckily discovered what was being done in order to restore it. I'm partial to the first, but what separates the two of them, is the fact that KOTOR 2's fanbase was willing to go tremendous lengths to give people what was once there. The Sith Lords is a game that's spiritually satisfying to me, because people that I still do not know fully, came together to produce an addition for the entire world of Star Wars and honestly, the world.

 

I guess I could summarize what I'm thinking by saying, despite a "cut and run" performance by Lucas Arts, The Sith Lords is satisfying on more than just a consumer level.

 

 

 

 

(Yes, I did abuse the hsiss glitch. But in all honesty, if Lucas Arts knew about it and still didn't fix it with a patch, then perhaps they wanted people to reach the level cap.)

[dgchawaya 12]

Also, Kotor 2 is my favourite.

 

While kotor 1 is awesome aswell, kotor 2 is just bit more appealing to me and "darker" story wise. Altough i do remember the first time i played kotor 1 and the npc "Malak" told me in a ship i was Revan. I was like .... , didnt see that one comming

[Guest DragonEmperor]

I have to agree with Markus on many aspects. Both games seem to aim towards something different story-wise.

 

Kotor seems to be a great Star Wars story. While it has a jedi that claims to be grey, there doesn't seem to be much beyond that. Its all cast in stone many times. Everything around you is good vs evil, dark side against light side. Even the decisions you make as a character seem to be good or evil. I'm not going to knock Bioware for bad writing, the writing is actually pretty good, but they write for a particular aim.

 

Kotor 2 is an attempt at something deeper. Kreia is truly grey; she is never the stereotypical good or evil character. Even some of the choices that are available to you take on a grey area, though this isn't seen as much as I would like. The story is pretty deep and the thing that holds it back is the technical limitations. I think it could have been a really great game if time was given to complete it. TSLRCM does give some closure, but I think that nothing can truly beat what Kotor 2 could have been. The mod does a pretty good job; I have to say that. I love the plot of this game for its deep aspects, but its that deep story that doesn't make it a Star Wars game. A Star Wars story is one of good against evil, something that really doesn't involve grey, ambiguous moral lines.

 

Overall, I have to say both. I love Kotor for its polished story and the fun it provides when ever I play it. I will always love Kotor 2 for what it is and was going for though. I love both for different reasons, but the fact remains. Kotor and Kotor 2 are pretty good in what they attempt and, even though Kotor 2 needed a little help, the games achieve what their ultimate goal was.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

That's well put.

 

Another thing I noticed in my last playthrough of K1 is that I do enjoy the finer shades of morality between different NPCs. You have, for instance, Bastila, Carth, Jolee, Zalbaar, Mission as essentially positive characters, but each one has a slightly different morality.

 

Carth is mostly a good guy, but primarily he's loyal to the Republic and that takes precedence over other considerations. He has no problem with you rigging the Sunry trial for instance, as long as it benefits the Republic. He has no problem with you Force Persuading the Cherka officer to give you more credits (and says so), something that would draw a disapproving comment from Bastila.

 

Bastila is kind of Lawful Good with strong Lawful elements - her focal point is the Jedi teachings, and obedience to the Masters. She will try to uphold the Jedi Code in her life very seriously, and will bitch you out if you do things contrary to it.

 

Zalbaar doesn't get much exposition, but the Life Debt thing strikes me as a Lawful trait (well I personally think it's Lawful Stupid ). And we know Wookies are big on the honor thing.

 

Mission is simply good, obviously not very big on the lawful thing. Her sacrifice as she attempts to sway you back if you're Darkside is very moving - this is a person who will lay her life on the line to accomplish a good thing, if it's important enough. She doesn't do it for the Republic or for the Jedi Code, it's just her.

 

Jolee is ostensibly neutral, but really a good guy - his neutrality is more like non-interventionism. I don't remember the exact dialog, but he thinks the Wookies could have thrown off the Czerka if they'd been up to it as a community; just becasue they didn't choose to get their act together doesn't mean they need rescuing by a Jedi. Kreia would have approved, I think. I also see strong paralels between his views on Jedi and love, and Kreia's more general views on how the pre-Exile Jedi teachings were flawed.

 

Okay, I wrote more than I intended, just wanted to bring this stuff up as an example that Bioware writing wasn't exactly bad, even if it had traditional SW themes to it.

[Guest darthkrull]

I like the K1 story better but the way you can modify your weapons and armour with different styles with different abilities in K2 is awesome. So I'm gonna have to go with K2

[Guest ltlukelt]

It's KOTOR 2 all the way for me

[Guest Wrenchmonkey]

You have to take each game into context. KOTOR 1 will always be hailed as an awesome game(which it still is), and for the fact that it singlehandedly saved Star Wars video games for the foreseeable future. Without it, we would have never seen the superior KOTOR 2 or either of the Force Unleashed games, even though they are a different genre, let alone an Old Republic MMO (Galaxies was a failure from the beginning thanks to Sony, and the Battlefront games were just average FPSs in a Star Wars skin). So all hail KOTOR 1 for allowing us to be able to play KOTOR 2!!!

[Guest Kyosai7]

Hmm, tough call. On one hand, I think 2 was better overall, but it feels weird to me to start it up, since it is the sequel to the original KOTOR. In some ways it feels to me like coming in the middle. Both had great character, such as HK-47. However, I think the additions 2 made, such as the different lightsaber styles, and combat forms, as well as new Force powers, and having your team change alignment with you makes 2 the better game overall.

[Guest HaVoKeR]

First of all i have to say that if it wasn't for a spoiler i would never knew that i were Revan in Kotor until the surprise... and thats a great turn in events which TSL doesn't have, Kreia for e.g. almost had EVIL written in her face, no big surprises when she turned... Another thing that i hate is if you are LS you can't save yourself from the Jedi Masters and you're saved by the ol' witch, haha, those JM were just so weak and stupid - "wound in the force" -my a55. lol.

 

Also, we can't forget that Kotor 1 was the 2003 Game of the Year. And in my point of view, Bastila and Carth were much better characters, Kreia just annoys me a lot... now that i've discovered that you can win stuff with low influence, i will tear that witch apart in my next playthrough.

She just talks too much! She has that crazy emo idea about destroying the force because she had suffered too much for it... i am thinking about editing some dialogs so i can say to her stuff like "Shut up bitch and make me a sandwhich". Atton, the equivalent of Carth in TSL is a sadistic, egocentric, petty and coward guy with luck about killing Jedi, all because he had the force working with him. Carth is a more noble person, with a disturbing past and stronger personality (he becames the f@cking Admiral of the Republic! ffs). ahaha

 

Another point is the work we all had to make TSL better than KotOR, if we are talking about both games in vanilla version, K1 smashes TSL easily.

My TSL override folder has more than 1 gigabyte of mods and retextures to make it rock, while my KotOR has something like 100 mb.

But now, TSL is possibly better than KotOR, and we can't forget that RCM 1.7 is not perfect yet... Even its brothers like Genoharadan or that droid world are in the moms belly yet, 7 months or so?

 

I could also recommend more evil touches that could make TSL better... what about letting Peragus get sicker, like, an even more dark Peragus mod, or what about putting some blood/flesh textures in the robots, just as in that movie that they are in a boat and a Virus infests the system, creating robots that kill everyone and steal their bodies to create killing cyborgs (i saw it when i was a child, almost as scary as RE 1 for psone in that time)... you guys knew that Peragus was supposed to be scary? but they failed hard in that, maybe because the game had to be age 13+ or something.

 

 

Also in TSL you're the EXILE, yeah cool, but in KotOR you're THE Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Revan, whose memory was wiped so the weak Jedi could have a chance in the war! Hoyeah, i like the sound of that! Now, imagine if Al Pacino made that character, or Johny Depp, or Brad Pitt, or... or... maybe Keanu Reeves, and we can't forget about Will Smith! xD Just like Sam Witwer made Galen Marek... it wouldn't be awesome? ahahahhaha

 

Anyway, after everything is complete and combined; TSL will be better than KotOR overall.

[Guest HaVoKeR]

Also, Kotor 2 is my favourite.

 

While kotor 1 is awesome aswell, kotor 2 is just bit more appealing to me and "darker" story wise. Altough i do remember the first time i played kotor 1 and the npc "Malak" told me in a ship i was Revan. I was like .... , didnt see that one comming

 

Dammmm right nigga! hehe just joking. TSL in its vanilla is soooo flawed... but soooooo incomplete, i just hate it.

The problem is, people like to start as jedi's, they don't see the beauty about being a normal soldier, scout or scoundrel and then becoming a strong Jedi... (believe me, the best build is to get the first class by lvl 8 and then level up as a jedi until 12). While vanilla K1 is soooooo complete and sooo well done. =)

[Guest HaVoKeR]

Hmm, tough call. On one hand, I think 2 was better overall, but it feels weird to me to start it up, since it is the sequel to the original KOTOR. In some ways it feels to me like coming in the middle. Both had great character, such as HK-47. However, I think the additions 2 made, such as the different lightsaber styles, and combat forms, as well as new Force powers, and having your team change alignment with you makes 2 the better game overall.

 

Hmm... this gameplay stuff about TSL is just a detail, and all that stuff doesn't matter, the game is so easy you can beat it with your bare hands (literally), again, if your talking about the vanillas, TSL is just a bugged/cutted parts game, while K1 is complete and almost perfect in bugs related.

 

OBS: all that new powers stuff in TSL (which happens to be in K1 but TSL has more of them) isn't very nice in my opinion, because most of that powers never appeared in the movies, and that means that they are veeery rare, obscure and difficult to learn or they just doesn't exist in the Original Universe... like Heal, Drain Life, Plague, Revitalize...

[EELON 0]

K1 is a better Star Wars game, as previously stated. It also has one of the greatest plot twists ever imo.

K2 is a typical obsidian game, it deals with dark & gray morality. It's too 'dark' for me. But because it look a lot better, and has restored content (a new play though is new) I'm gonna play this game more.

[Guest Jugman]

There is really little to choose between Kotor and TSLRCM. I think both good games.