Markus Ramikin's report on 1.6 - main part

[Markus Ramikin 107]

This is a report built during a playthrough of 1.6a.

 

Other mods used:

- Rebalance

- updated dialog.tlk

- Improved AI

- My own minor tweaks of NPC stats.

- Workbench crystal attunement mod

 

Male lightside Jedi Consular/Jedi Master.

Highest difficulty.

Dantooine -> Nar Shaddaa -> Dxun -> Korriban -> Onderon

 

ToC:

I. Appreciation

II. Problems and bugs

III. Feature and tweak suggestions

IV. Vanilla revert requests

____________________________

 

 

I. Appreciation

 

Let me start by restating once again my thanks to the creators for this mod. There's a lot about it I appreciate a lot. The most important things of course are the HK Factory, and getting to see Goto die.

 

Some of the more minor things I noticed (especially in 1.6):

 

- Visas training reward; we've been asking for it, so thanks. It's an example of a small touch that makes a difference.

- the cargo hold door closing during duels with the Handmaiden, that made me laugh out loud for some reason.

- fixing the initial saber-related conditions of the Visas training (pretty sure you did that in 1.5, but I still wanna remark on it). Compared to 1.4 it's better and clearer now.

- fixing the availability of the other HK-disappointed-with-you-being-LS dialogue.

- the enabled INF loss opportunities for HK that I suggested, good work and thanks!

- Zez-Kai El this time correctly identified my actions on Nar Shaddaa as Jedilike (previously, doing the Trade War quest would mess it up). There's a lot of variables involved so I'm not 100% it's your doing, but I'm giving it the benefit of doubt .

- "Obviously, anything that interferes with my being able to listen to Ed Asner's voice-acting cannot be tolerated." Seems you fixed that problem during the meeting with the masters, from my last report.

- I sad this in 1.5 but I'll say it again: I like the change to the confronation with Kreia, with Atton running away and only then running into Sion. Very well done.

 

 

Thank you.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Markus Ramikin 107]

II. Problems and bugs

 

These may be vanilla problems too. Or things I just don't think work in a way that makes sense at all. Might also be things I said before in comments on 1.4 and 1.5. I took the inclusive approach so there'll be a lot more things listed than you'll probably want to bother with.

 

 

1. B4-D4 and Batono

 

When you talk to Batono as B4-D4, he used to have a line about B4. Something about Czerka being "on to him", if I remember. Now that is lost, he merely says the same thing as he normally does to the Exile, "I don't have anything for you, but thanks for saving my life". Which 1. is not right 2. equals missing content.

 

Side effect of fixing the bug in 1.5, perhaps?

 

 

2. The two Gamorreans used against Doton Het

 

This is extremely minor, but might as well. After the whole business with Ramana is concluded, they keep standing in Doton's apartament.

 

They say their line about "taking care of the mess" even to B4-D4, which is not right (this is why I classify it as a bug). Hm, they're still standing here and saying that line after I've been to Dantooine and back.

 

I think they should disappear completely as soon as you leave the module, if that's possible.

 

 

3. HK-50s at the polar mesa

 

The HK-50s that shoot down your shuttle before you get to meet Atris, speak of activating mines and self destruct mechanisms, but there are no mines there and the HK-50s don't go boom when they lose.

 

 

4. Dantooine crystal cave dialogue

 

This is very minor, but I guess still a bug. I only noticed it now, I don't know if this is a new problem or just something that went unnoticed:

 

Kreia has two dialogues there, one for normal speech, and one for telepathy when she's not in the party. They fire okay if you're leading as the Exile, but if Kreia herself has point and you lead into the cave area while controlling Kreia, her telepathic dialogue fires instead of the normal one.

 

 

5. Weird -saves mods on Dantooine

 

HK-50s in front of the Enclave had -30 to saves. What the hell is that about? Surely it's not intended... it's really silly how easily they go down to Force powers, compared to the kath hounds that you take on before and after.

 

Also mercenaries had -20 to saves in the Battle of Khoonda (the part in front of the building) which made it really easy to e.g. disable them all with Force Horror. Hassat already said this wasn't intended, so noting it here for the record. If this is meant to be a result of the uplifting speech you give to the settlers before the battle, I think it should affect settler/merc combat values, like their attack and defense bonuses, affecting their skill in fighting each other.

 

 

6. Kaevee's dialogue

 

If I meet Disciple first (or possibly if I discover the clue in his room), and then Kaevee, her dialogue does not let me tell her about Vrook. That line is missing. I can still say that there are Jedi but in hiding - and when she asks me about masters, I can only tell her that there are no more masters and that she can forge her own path, without rules.

 

This is a Bad Thing. I know of Vrook regardless of anything else, because to get to the Enclave I had to talk to the Administrator, and the Administrator tells me about Vrook. So I should be able to talk about him regardless of other variables.

 

 

7. Missing Disciple

 

Just as in 1.5, if I first meet Kaevee, leave the Enclave (for instance to swap out party members, as for some reason I can't do that inside), then come back, Disciple will not be there (male playthrough). This is a Bad Thing, too.

 

 

8. Bao Dur's training

 

I don't know if this is something you can fix at all. However, as I reported before, the part where he trains against the Remote looks like this: Bao Dur stands there looking wounded, takes a shot to the face without defending himself (though he lights the lightsaber) and the scene fades. I imagine you intended he'd actually deflect a shot.

 

I confirmed this is not due to level-saving. When I level him up before initiating this, the same thing happens.

 

Also: is it possible to turn off his voice for the sparring parts? "Let's get this over with!" is not an appropriate cry in that context .

 

 

9. Training with Visas

I don't know if this is fixable, either, but sometimes Visas fights doing lightsaber moves but not actually displaying a lightsaber blade. Obviously some sort of a bug.

 

 

10. Militia guy in front of Khoonda building

 

As far as I understand it, he's supposed to work like this:

- when he recognizes you as a Jedi (due to wielding a lightsaber) he says "don't cause more trouble for Dantooine" and only this, nothing else.

- when you've not been spotted yet, he tells you a different random rumour every time you click on him.

 

The (very minor) problem is that he also says "don't cause more trouble" as one of those random lines, before you've been revealed as a Jedi. This, I imagine, is not what was intended.

 

 

11. Pato Ado (the flatworm on Dantooine)

 

I'm pretty sure I used to be able to ask him to join the Khoonda militia for the siege. He'd refuse, but the option was there at least; did it get intentionally removed?

 

 

12. Adana bug

 

Same as I reported in 1.5:

 

"When I free her by wiping that pathetic little gang from the face of... *cough*, I mean, when I free her through needless violence, Adana later spawns next to her mother. This is correct.

 

But if instead I just use Force Persuade to get Sasquash to agree to let her go, she does not spawn anywhere, yet the quest is completed and the mother is grateful."

 

(google cache ftw)

 

To be clear: I do not see Adana at all, I don't open her door - I just go to the Overseer and use Force Persuade. After that Adana is nowhere to be found: neither spawns by her mother, nor, if I break in, is in the room where she was being held.

 

 

13. Readme/changelog

 

Someone run it through a spellchecker. "* Fixed speeling errors", indeed!

 

 

14. Typo in Mira's line:

 

"}Uh-oh, we've got insects. Looks like the Gand colony is in full force."

It has the } character at the start.

 

 

15. Atton teleporting bug.

 

Atton + Mira + T3 leave the docks to the Refugee Landing Pad, and get surrounded by Zhugs coming from both sides. If Atton starts moving forward, he suddenly finds himself on the other side of the map, and says some line about needing to get to the ship as it's his only way off the planet.

 

This also repopulates the area with the usual NPCs and openable doors.

 

Also if I try to reload my quicksave after that, the game crashes.

 

 

16. HK interrogation scene on Hawk

 

It's vaguely buggy. It plays out fine if I let everything roll at its own pace, but if I try to skip stuff with clicking, it doesn't wrap up properly.

 

What I mean is some events happen throughout following Ebon Hawk cutscenes, for instance the smoking/torture beam was still happening while HK-47 was talking to Go-to, and the blackscreen moment happened while the Remote was flying around Goto. After one testrun I even was left with HK-47 standing around in the torturing posture, with one arm thrust out, until I clicked on him to talk to him.

 

Perhaps some of those dialogue elements should be unskippable/delayed.

 

 

17. HK dialog re: Revan and killing Jedi

 

I don't know if this even is a problem. However, I suspect a conversation-ending choice was accidentally removed while fixing an exploit/loop.

 

I am having the conversation with HK-47 about the many ways to kill Jedi, and about what Revan was really doing at Malachor. It's a loop though, I keep being able to go through all his explanations indefinitely - and the only way to exit it is to say "we are not having this conversation right now".

 

Is this right? I'm pretty sure there used to be a more neutral way to end it. And this doesn't make much sense since he and I already just had this conversation (and are looping through it again), I'd already chosen to be interested in what he wanted to tell me so to say that I don't want to talk about it right now doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

18. Mandalorian battle circle - mines exploit

 

The "buff up with Force Powers before the fight" exploit is gone, which is good. You can still cheat by mining the area, though.

 

I notice this has been fixed for the sparring with Handmaidens; if you mine the place before sparring those mines won't get triggered by the opponent. Maybe that could be done for the Battle Circle, too?

 

 

19. Kreia's lesson of skills

 

It's better, but you still haven't got it 100% right.

 

First of all, it seems the check requires that I increase -both- my lowest skill and my highest one. (Stealth and Awareness in my case). If I only increase my weakest skill, I don't get the follow up. This is contradictory to dialogue, as Kreia asks you to work on your weakest skill and that's what the Exile reports having done.

 

Secondly, when I do get the follow-up, the game tells me I got a bonus to both the weakest and strongest skill. When I checked, though, I only got it to the weakest one. This may perhaps be because the highest was at level-permitted max. I've seen this limitation bypassed before though - for instance with HK's awareness benefit from the Pacifist package - so I know it's be possible.

 

Meh. I was going to try and be actually useful (*audience gasps*), but it appears I don't have the source of c_fixedskill.ncs. I may be a modding infant, but I could probably help with little things like that.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Markus Ramikin 107]

II. ... continued

 

20. Kavar's Jedi Freak

 

Between Kavar's dispatching two soldiers, and the scene with the Queen, there's a moment where you can click on Kavar, and if you do that he'll walk back all the way to the terminal in the other part of the palace. It doesn't really break anything afterwards, I think, but obviously it is not what was meant to happen.

 

I'm really not sure why the player needs control at all between those scenes. Removing it so the scenes just play out in sequence would be one way to fix it.

 

 

21. Dantooine Council meeting

 

Kreia sometimes walks already unhooded into the scene with the masters, then performs the hood-lifting motion anyway. I haven't been able to rigorously ascertain what causes this, but my suspicions are on two possible causes:

- clicking through the preceding scene with Visas rather than letting it play out,

- going through the whole Council meeting a second time after reloading a save.

 

 

22. Dantooine Council meeting #2

 

Also, I still think the pacing of the big Kreia speech scene is a little worse with all the text added. She talks and talks and talks. The whole thing makes me feel Kreia should run out of breath, or the masters run out of patience and attack her . But I admit I can't think of a way to improve it without cutting content again. So merely noting on this for the record.

 

 

23. Kreia and Atris dialog

 

What ever possessed you guys to restore the line "I was the one who asked him to be exiled"? This must be an early draft line because it doesn't make sense with the rest of the story as it is in the released game. Kreia was long gone by the time the Exile's exile happened. The masters thought she "had died in the Mandalorian wars" (Kavar), obviously she wasn't around by then.

 

I'm sure this is from an early draft of the story, from when Atris' and Kreia's roles were planned in a somewhat reversed way to how they finally took shape.

 

 

24. The Visas-Mandalore scene right after killing Nihilus

 

Currently it doesn't like being clicked through. If I do that, it leads to Visas crouching like 10 meters from Mandalore, while she's supposed to be right over him. I am guessing that to fix it you need to make the part where she walks back from Nihilus' corpse unskippable.

 

 

25. "He awaits you at Telos".

 

Visas still has that dialogue on the Ravager, the first time I click on her. Funnily, I clicked on her only after killing Nihilus and still got that.

 

 

26. Kreia and Sion second dialog, at the start of Malachor

 

"[Turns, walks up to Sion, then at the last sentence, touches Sion's skin, then clenches her fist]"

I'm sure these directions were not supposed to be visible to the player as part of the dialogue. If it can't be shown through motions, just drop it altogether (not the whole dialogue, just the theatre directions).

Edited August 31, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Markus Ramikin 107]

III. Feature and tweak suggestions

 

Not really bugs with the mod or even original game, just things that bug me or that I think would be a good idea. Most of them are long shots at best and feel free to ignore them.

 

 

1. Changelog

 

Currently only shows 1.5 -> 1.6. So it's impossible to know the full list of features/changes without having all the previous versions, I presume, and combining their readmes. At least for an intended "final release" it'd make sense to see a full changelog...

 

 

2. Heal NPCs between cutscenes

 

(yes I said it in 1.5 too)

- Bao-Dur, before he talks to you in the Polar Academy, after the shuttle crash. The changelog says it's fixed, but I tested it and it's only true if you ask him to come with you. If you ask Bao to meet you on the ship, he stays wounded.

- Bao-Dur, before the part in his training where he deflects shots from the Remote.

- Atton, before the Exile and Atton meet Lt. Grenn, after the Hawk scene where he tells the Exile about Kreia's going to Telos. He's wounded in that Hawk scene, and rightly so, but surely he should have gotten patched up during the hyperspace trip.

- Atton, after his duel with Sion. If he ends up badly wounded at the end of the duel (as he did for me), the scene at the end of the game looks very bad: he switches from leaning casually, relaxed, to looking like he's about to fall over. It's abrupt and unnatural.

- Handmaiden, or possibly the whole party, before the planning-of-attack-on-Kreia scene. Handmaiden was still looking wounded after fighting Atris. Then she spent the whole fight with Kreia healing instead of fighting.

 

 

3. Bao Dur's training - meditation

 

I said it before on the old forums, and I remember one of you guys saying it's a good idea (Hassat maybe?) so I'll repeat it here as it hasn't been implemented.

 

Basically, Bao Dur's Jedi training starts with him and Exile sitting and meditating together. They sit for a few seconds, then stand up. That doesn't make sense. It would look much better if it faded to black while they were still sitting, suggesting the meditation actually lasted a while.

 

 

4. Freeing your friends on Malachor.

 

I said this in 1.5 before the forum went down.

 

The new way of freeing the imprisoned companions is a vast improvement, good work - I really hated the lame, obviously rehashed lines. However, I still want to suggest a tweak:

 

a) The NPCs cells are pretty much behind your back and they run out without saying a word. It's still a little unnatural. It would make more sense if the cells were close to the exit, so the terminal for releasing them was farther away from them. Far enough away that they wouldn't actually get to see the Exile while escaping. Like the Ithorian you can free in the Exchange area on Telos, his escape route is far enough from where you stand while freeing him that it makes sense and isn't jarring that he never thanks you or says anything to you once freed.

 

Also:

What would really be awesome is this: after the Exile opens the doors from some remote location, and before the overhead shot of them all running out, insert a front shot of an NPC walking out of the cell and then looking around, to the left and right, trying to see what happened. That sort of a animation does exist, though right now I can't remember when I saw an NPC use it. You get to telepathically tell them

:: Run! ::

after which they run out as usual.

 

We had a discussion about this after 1.5 and we talked about the animation to use in . The ideal one I think would be the same as Handmaiden has after defeating her sisters and before Atris fights her, the looking-around animation (NOT the same one with Exile looking to one side than the other before meeting Visas).

 

I'm bringing it up again because Hassat confused me with his hint about "From what I gather, you might want to wait a week or so ;)", I thought he was responding to this... so I'm confused if this idea was actually being considered but got dropped or something . I think it'd be an interesting take on it and an idea worth looking into, both a) and together, so bringing it up again just to be sure.

 

 

5. Suulru's modulator

 

I was tempted to put it in bugs, because you've sort of removed content here, but after some thought putting it here.

 

The vanilla quest used to be about getting the modulator from Jorran, and now it's about finding that Kavee was the thief. So far so good. However, Suulru's request was actually to get the modulator back, and that's still true. He wants the modulator, not words. He needs it to farm.

 

Could we have Kaevee give you the modulator at the end of the "about stealing..." conversation? (or for it to be in her corpse if you kill her). And then you can give it to Suulru. It doesn't matter if there are no dialogue lines for this with Kaevee, just use the "item gained", "item lost" functions. It would still make more sense that way.

 

 

6. Training the NPCs on Ebon Hawk

 

Still needs a lot of attention, I think.

 

When you use options like "I want to show you some techniques I learned in my travels", for instance with Bao Dur, could there be information displayed as to what feats/powers/forms exactly were transfered? Atton has that, and I like it. Why not Bao and the others?

 

Currently it's unclear. Unless I take a piece of paper and write down the "before" state of Bao, to compare with "after", it's really hard to know that something even happened at all.

 

Also, while Atton's options are generally more informative, he said "I can't use that" at one point. I never learned what it was I was trying to teach him, though - it'd be nice to know that. I imagine it was some form Consulars get and Sentinels don't... or maybe some Jedi Master skill?

 

Or even better, maybe the Exile just shouldn't try to teach the wrong things to the wrong classes. When he does, it just makes the player feel like they did something dumb - though it's no fault of the player's, since one doesn't get to choose what the Exile is going to try to teach.

 

 

7. Unskippable dialogues

 

Don't know if it's worth anyone's time, but could you consider making more of them skippable.

 

I understand that sometimes an animation is playing at the same time, and it should be allowed to play out or things will break. But sometimes - and I could be wrong, of course - there seems to me there is no reason to make it unskippable. This is particularly annoying with alien languages.

 

One example would be Visquis' long monologue about the alarm in his base, leading to his decision to open the door to the tunnels. The only part of that monologue which maaybe requires non-skip-ability is when an Ubese is running to obey Visquis' order to "cover the base". The rest of it I'd gladly click through. It's annoying, I can read a line in half a second and then I have to keep listening to that alien "gobble gobble". (I guess it's far more annoying if I'm playing through it many times to test something for this report! )

 

Another example would be the Twi'lek refusing the advances of that other alien, in the bar on NS. Her initial "I told you, I'm not interested, fire up your engines elsewhere" is unskippable, not sure why.

 

 

8. Schuttas

 

Did the Twin Suns run out of shields after their first meeting with Atton? On NS they activate shields and present some challenge... on Goto's ship they don't and are ridiculously easy because of that (even if I just send Atton against them solo again). Maybe give them shields?

 

I don't remember if they activate shields normally, actually, or if this is a result of the AI mod. However, it'd still be nice if they had new shields to activate on Goto's ship since that mod does get used.

 

 

9. Can't change your party

 

Not a big deal at all, but a lot of times this limitation seems pointless from the point of view of the plot or necessary game mechanics. Why not let the player change his party inside the Enclave on Dantooine? Or in the Entertainment Promenade on NS?

 

 

10. Obsolete dialogue options

 

I think some stuff should be removed after it's been played through. Only when it doesn't make sense any more; otherwise, as an option to see the same content again, it's fine. Examples of when it doesn't make sense to keep it:

 

- Mira's dialogue on the Hawk leading to her agreeing to one day let you show her the currents on life on Nar Shaddaa. At the very least the last parts of the dialogue are obsolete once she's Jedified.

- Asking the Sullustan guy on NS if he can change your transponder codes. Obsolete after Goto's ship.

- Some Handmaiden's dialogue options after you've concluded training her. I.e. asking who her mother was when you already had her tell you about it.

 

I'm sure there's more.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Markus Ramikin 107]

III... continued

 

 

11. INF opportunities on first meeting with Kavar

 

When you meet Kavar and Tobin interrupts, the NPC with you will opine on whether or not you should use grenades, thus harming civilians around. Some of your responses carry INF opprortunies depending on whether you agree with the NPC. However, it doesn't work for some NPCs.

 

I think it'd be a good idea to add INF opportunities, both for gaining and loss, for those NPCs who don't have them. I haven't tested them all this time, but I know Mandalore and Kreia are lacking them. For instance Mandalore is a warrior and doesn't want to slaughter non-combatants, but doesn't seem to take any INF change regardless of whether you show yourself to be like-minded or not.

 

In fact I'd particularly would like that for Mandalore, whose content it's hard to unlock as a Lightside char. An extra INF opportunity that isn't about being rutheless/Dark would be nice. Not sure if it would be sufficient to unlock his content together with the +INF hits from gathering his clans... then again it could be -made- to be sufficient, hint hint

 

In fact I'm going to make that the next post:

 

12. Recalibrate Mandalore's INF requirement

 

For the benefit of Lightside playthroughs, so that helping him reunite the clans plus that +INF opportunity from the Izis cantina from the previous point, would be sufficient to unlock his content. Otherwise I think Mandalore may be the only character whose content can't be unlocked by a LS player.

 

 

13. Esok

 

(Dantooine Mandalorian who fights Mandalore)

Could he get a weapon?

 

 

14. Mandalorian Battle Circle reward

 

According to dialogue with the Sergeant, there shouldn't be one, except for honor and respect (which in game terms means contributing to Mandalore's decision to take you to Izis). Currently you get a random item reward. I vote to remove it.

 

 

15. Possibly illogical line after defeating Atris

 

One of the lines you can choose is that she will answer to the Council for her crimes.

 

But isn't the Council dead? Or can the Exile mean the Telosian council? Not a big deal, just I'm not sure what to make of it.

 

 

16. Mira noticing you have a Jedi in party

 

She has a line after "looks like the Jedi raised their standards", where she will notice a second Jedi, too. "And it looks like you're not alone". I like it.

 

However it only seems to work for Kreia. Visas, jedified Bao-Dur, jedified Handmaiden and I think (didn't test in 1.6) jedified Atton don't trigger it.

 

I don't know if it's possible to fix this for the Jedified NPCs, as in, can the script/dialogue be made to check for Jedi classes? Even if not, at the very least it should also work for Visas, since she's always a Jedi class.

 

Or maybe this is intended? Mira recognizes Kreia's by the robes, and would have nothing to go by with the others? Then again, nobody on Dantooine seems to notice the robes... and my Jedified NPCs are carrying lightsabers...

 

 

17. Repeated line in Kreia's dialog

 

After "You were manipulating me all along", the line "And I used you to make those who wounded me reveal themselves, so they could be destroyed by the Republic." is said twice. Not immediately in a row, but it's still an obvious repetition.

 

Not quite sure which instance I'd remove or what I'd do with it. But it probably could use looking at and thinking about.

 

 

18. Installation modularity

 

This would take some work, but I think the project would benefit from taking the same approach as the Planescape:Torment mods. (I think there's a fair chance that devoted players of Kotor 2 will know what I'm talking about).

 

They are divided into FixPack (bug fixes), TweakPack (balancing, tweaks etc) and Unfinished Business (content restoration). When you install those, you get a lot of choices on whether you want to install things or not. The installer is purely text and those are yes/no choices; I think TSLRCM would be better off with a GUI and expandable tree (like this); but the principle is the same. I don't know how hard this is to do.

 

This gives the player more freedom, rather than having to accept everything in a package deal. I personally know I'd install the HK Factory no matter what, but I'm not 100% sure I'd keep everything else if I had the choice; I feel in a some cases content was restored "because it was there" but with negative impact on the pacing and dramatic tension of scenes.

 

Also, this sort of approach allows modmakers to include more controversial tweaks or content with more confidence that they would otherwise be unsure about; since now the player has choice, all it takes is not putting the "recommended" flag on such modules and you're okay.

 

I expect this almost certainly won't happen, since it's probably a lot of work and you probably didn't plan for this sort of modularity and it would be hard to make sure installing only some things and not others won't break anything. But in case I'm wrong, well, the idea's been voiced at least.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Markus Ramikin 107]

IV. Vanilla revert requests

 

Not every possible restoration or "fix" is an improvement. Some things no doubt got left out for a reason; others were axed due to time constrains but that means OE never had the chance to see them in practice and realize they weren't desireable after all. You've already agreed with that, implicitely, by removing that horrible Atris music from the initial confrontation with Atris, about two versions back, so I hope you can see my point.

 

 

1. Lopak Slusk's terminal

 

You can free the Ithorian only if Lopak is dead. Otherwise, the mistreated Ithorian remains in the cage - even though you just got Slusk to agree to stop being a pain to the Ithorians, AND you possibly promised the flatworm to look into freeing him. That can't possibly be right.

 

Maybe make it possible to approach the terminal stealthed?

 

If no other solution can be thought of (or they're too much work), just revert to vanilla state please. It would still be less jarring to let you interact with the terminal even with Lopak standing there, than to just leave the Ithorian in the cage.

 

Especially as any benefit to suspension of disbelief is void because you can still loot his containers right next to the terminal despite the fact that he's alive. And you can access Grenn's terminal no problem with Grenn standing there and looking at you.

 

 

2. Saedhe's model.

 

Yes I said it before. The old black man was much better and fit the voice better, which may be the reason why his unique model ended up not used. I see it as a change, not restoration, and a bad one at that.

 

 

3. Hussef's model.

 

See 2., though I don't feel that strongly about that one.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Hassat Hunter 572]

- the cargo hold door closing during duels with the Handmaiden, that made me laugh out loud for some reason.

Thaaaaaat's... vanilla.

1. B4-D4 and Batono

He still says his B4 line... when he is in hiding (cause it makes no sense in the TSF office.

However, there is no TSF office B4 line... hence the result you see.

7. Missing Disciple

Not really, that's intentional. You *can* get pretty much get all the dialogue back in Khoonda.

9. Training with Visas

Some colors have that. Not really fixable.

10. Militia guy in front of Khoonda building

You understand wrong .

11. Pato Ado (the flatworm on Dantooine)

Pazaak player, right? I remember asking him, so it should still be present.

13. Readme/changelog

We catched that one, but Zbyl wanted to keep it as is, for the humour .

16. HK interrogation scene on Hawk

I suppose I should look into making some stuff unskippable then.

17. HK dialog re: Revan and killing Jedi

That's the ending you have when he asks you questions, yeah. The neutral is when YOU ask the questions. So, no bug.

19. Kreia's lesson of skills

It only gives +1 to the minimum skill, yes.

21. Dantooine Council meeting

Or 3. The original script ran (it was actually made by OE to go that way, but it bugs out 99 of the 100 times. There may be remains of it left).

26. Kreia and Sion second dialog, at the start of Malachor

Eh, looks like they just used the wrong tags, [] instead of {}.

4. Freeing your friends on Malachor.

We may have something for this now... [Cloaks in silence]

Oh, did I confuse you more?

- Mira's dialogue on the Hawk leading to her agreeing to one day let you show her the currents on life on Nar Shaddaa. At the very least the last parts of the dialogue are obsolete once she's Jedified.

Lol. Already done for 1.6B/1.7 (actually, it was a bug it still showed up...)

15. Possibly illogical line after defeating Atris

They kind of intended this to be before the council meeting.

"You are not the last of the Jedi - the Jedi Council still lives."

"{Defiant}You lie. The Jedi Council is dead, the Order cast down."

"I do not lie. You know it."

"{Confused}They live? But..."

"Then there were survivors, as I thought... as I hunted them. And they are cowards, afraid to battle the Sith."

"They do not have your strength... our strength. Together, we can stop them, put an end to such weakness."

16. Mira noticing you have a Jedi in party

IIRC only Kreia and Disciple. Because they... were trained the official way (well, okay, Disciple not, but he was a trainee there).

18. Installation modularity

Yeah, it's a little bit more interwoven than plunging files in override like Planescape Torment.

1. Lopak Slusk's terminal

Well, you already know what I said about this. And no, there are no stealth lines.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Hassat Hunter

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Thanks for the response!

 

Thaaaaaat's... vanilla.

No way? Sorry then! I've played this game probably 20 times by now and I don't remember ever seeing it before. Must be the angle, come to think of it. Normally the way you start the fight, I don't think the exit is in view. But then again I sure as hell don't remember -hearing it- close and open, like I did this time.

 

He still says his B4 line... when he is in hiding (cause it makes no sense in the TSF office.

However, there is no TSF office B4 line... hence the result you see.

That's a weird way to argue...

 

At the very least we should be able to agree that the line he does now respond with at the TSF office makes absolutely no sense, right? "I don't have anything for you, but thanks for saving my life". B4 never saved his life...

 

The line you removed at least acknowledges he's talking to B4-D4, which makes a great deal more sense. I never had a problem with it; it was amusing extra content I was positively surprised with for its being there.

 

And by the way, B4 can't (normally) access Batono's hideout. So the likelyhood of a player ever seeing that line now is a near zero, compared to how it used to be. That kinda amounts to content removal.

 

In conclusion, as it is now it is worse than in vanilla and with no good justification (such as restoring something).

 

Not really, that's intentional. You *can* get pretty much get all the dialogue back in Khoonda.

Could you explain why it is intentional? what's wrong with just letting him wait there until you free him, like in vanilla?

 

And in Khoonda Disciple doesn't talk to me. If I click on him, he just turns to me mutely. I guess that is the real problem, then.

 

You understand wrong .

It happens. That's not very helpful, though, as replies go.

 

Pazaak player, right? I remember asking him, so it should still be present

Nope, it's not present. Just reloaded some saves and checked again at two points, one freshly after getting the recruiting quest from Zherron, another once everything's been done and I was ready to start the battle. Flatworm was missing that dialogue option on both occasions.

 

We catched that one, but Zbyl wanted to keep it as is, for the humour .

OK, OK. Though if it were the only one, I'd not be saying anything

 

It only gives +1 to the minimum skill, yes.

Well, then that's inconsistent with the dialogue. When you finish the quest, you are told that you've gained a bonus to your weakest and strongest skill, and regained some connection to the Force. So that's what the quest should do...

 

Also please don't miss the other problem, about about the inconsistency between dialogue and conditions to move the lesson on. It should only require improving your weakest skill, based on dialogue, but the actual condition seems to be improving both. This means it won't work for someone who's following the dialogue's instructions, and they won't know why it didn't work.

 

We may have something for this now... [Cloaks in silence]

Oh, did I confuse you more?

Yes, a little, and it's been more than a week... *wink*

 

Yeah, it's a little bit more interwoven than plunging files in override like Planescape Torment.

So I expected. It was a neat idea while it was in my head!

 

Well, you already know what I said about this.

I included it for completeness. And I imagine there are still other members of the team whom my logical and persuasive arguments might sway *nods sagely*.

And no, there are no stealth lines.

Lines? As in dialogue/speech? There wouldn't be any needed...

Edited September 1, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Oh, and something positive to report: I stopped hating the Capacitance Armor. Sure, it makes things easy, but after comparing to the ease of the game before and after the Factory, I can see it's not out of line at all.

 

And I'm infinitely amused by Atton looking on in his leaning pose at the HK torture scene.

[Hassat Hunter 572]

No way? Sorry then!

Yup. Must have not payed attention.

The line you removed at least acknowledges he's talking to B4-D4, which makes a great deal more sense. I never had a problem with it; it was amusing extra content I was positively surprised with for its being there.

The line is "B-4D4! So Czerka's on to me. Look, I want you to forget you ever saw me."

Doesn't make much sense when at the TSF station. But looking at it, probably more than than the current B4 line does.

But Batono isn't the only without B4 lines (think the bartender of the cantina, or the Ithorian at the plant.

Could you explain why it is intentional? what's wrong with just letting him wait there until you free him, like in vanilla?

Because he's otherwise cloned? You can return at that moment you left and already find him in Khoonda, instead of returning to the underground. Wouldn't make much sense to find him then. The Kaevee part is just a safe-guard, but it kind of still allows 2 of him to hang about.

And I don't know why he wont talk to you, he should be.

Nope, it's not present. Just reloaded some saves and checked again at two points, one freshly after getting the recruiting quest from Zherron, another once everything's been done and I was ready to start the battle. Flatworm was missing that dialogue option on both occasions.

Okay, I checked the dialogue file, and it appears the option vanishes if you cleaned him out (read: won the components). Should be easy to fix.

When you finish the quest, you are told that you've gained a bonus to your weakest and strongest skill, and regained some connection to the Force.

There *is* a line that just the weakest would improve. I suggested using that and giving +2, but I guess it wasn't taken.

Yes, a little, and it's been more than a week... *wink*

I don't really recall saying that, though... Hmmm...

The plant got one.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

The line is "B-4D4! So Czerka's on to me. Look, I want you to forget you ever saw me."

Doesn't make much sense when at the TSF station. But looking at it, probably more than than the current B4 line does.

Makes some sense to me... "so Czerka knows I'm working with the authorities now, that's a bad thing, they could do something desperate".

 

But Batono isn't the only without B4 lines (think the bartender of the cantina, or the Ithorian at the plant.

Bartender has a line, something about not serving droids.

 

Anyway, so what? Lack of content elsewhere is not an argument for removing content here. Just restore it, I have a feeling you're just arguing for the sake of it, or to avoid having to do anything.

 

Because he's otherwise cloned? You can return at that moment you left and already find him in Khoonda, instead of returning to the underground.

Well obviously his apperance in Khoonda AND disappearance from the enclave should have the same trigger. So if I'm asking about one, obviously I'm asking about both. Why meeting Kaevee causes Disciple to move from Enclave to Khoonda before you've freed him from being trapped by laigreks.

 

And I don't know why he wont talk to you, he should be.

Just re-tested. Whether or not I first meet him in the Enclave, I can't talk to him in Khoonda. He just turns mutely towards me.

 

Okay, I checked the dialogue file, and it appears the option vanishes if you cleaned him out (read: won the components). Should be easy to fix.

Great!

 

There *is* a line that just the weakest would improve. I suggested using that and giving +2, but I guess it wasn't taken.

So nothing will happen? *confused* They disagreed that there is a problem?

 

I don't really recall saying that, though... Hmmm...

1.5 report page 1 of 3

1.5 report page 2 of 3

Posts #23-#26.

And then #43 and #44

 

The plant got one.

*confused* what does that have to do with anything?

Edited September 1, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Another problem:

 

27. HK-50s on Goto's ship.

 

* HK-50s will no longer spawn if you send HK-47 to Goto's Yacht (for both plot and balance reasons)

They did spawn and HK-47 was able to fire on them.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Playing a Darkside female Jedi Guardian atm.

 

The availability of the Doton Het dialogue on Luxa is a weird thing. I talked to Harra, he advised me to get the Exchange interested. When talking to Luxa though, I wasn't able to see that option. This was after helping Czerka get the droid. So I got a mission from Luxa to buy some weapons from some mercenaries. I left, came back, still unable to see the Doton dialogue. I went to Harra a second time and got him to speak of it a second time, went back to Luxa, and the option was there. Weird.

[Hassat Hunter 572]

I did some checking and added relevant options. Expect to see them in 1.7.

 

Also, a restored side-quest with Corrun Falt (Czerka-only). Pretty much everything was in working order (2 little issues aside that I also fixed) and there is a nice animated cutscene of him being arrested. But all of that could never be triggered because *dum dum* the requirements to start the quest where typo'ed. That never gets old, does it?

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Cool!

 

Of course you then went and tested if it works right, right? Not trying to be a pain, but now that I think of it, the Doton Het line has been a problem for many versions now. For instance last vesion, if I remember right, I was reporting it being duplicated rather than missing.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Hassat Hunter 572]

Sure.

 

And now that you continue on about problems, I remember Doton having an issue (resetting a global making the game "forget" you know about the Exchange) deal so I fixed that, and the option to have him beaten up after winning/buying Ramana.

Anything else?

[Guest sickie]

15. Atton teleporting bug.

 

Atton + Mira + T3 leave the docks to the Refugee Landing Pad, and get surrounded by Zhugs coming from both sides. If Atton starts moving forward, he suddenly finds himself on the other side of the map, and says some line about needing to get to the ship as it's his only way off the planet.

 

This also repopulates the area with the usual NPCs and openable doors.

 

Also if I try to reload my quicksave after that, the game crashes.

 

I've been hit by exactly that bug and I couldn't progress from that point onwards. I hope it get sorted out in 1.7 as it's YEARS (from when team-gizka announced that they're restoring content in KOTOR 2) that I want to play KOTOR 2 with restored content.

Bye the way: Thanks to everyone involved in this project, from the dev team to the devoted bug reporters (such as the very attentive Markus Ramikin)

[Hassat Hunter 572]

It's already fixed for 1.7.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Hassat Hunter, you can groan in painful anticipation. I'm doing a clean install of Kotor 2 with 1.7 just I speak

[Hassat Hunter 572]

Hassat Hunter, you can groan in painful anticipation.

Whuuuuuuuuuu?

[Markus Ramikin 107]

I mean, you're going to have the displeasure of seeing a new huge report some time soon.

[Hassat Hunter 572]

But maybe we fixed everything already!

[/totally unrealistic suggestion]

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

I mean, you're going to have the displeasure of seeing a new huge report some time soon.

 

Does this include me taking more heat for the 'incompleteness' of the HK factory?

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Damn, you guys must really hate me by now

[Hassat Hunter 572]

Actually I can already see you broke some things.

Such as?

 

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