Disappearance of a trick in the underground base of Czerka

[ttlan 18]

Hello,

 

I note the disappearance of a trick.

 

In the underground base of Czerka, it was possible to approach, at any time, the shuttle, to see our health back to 100% (except during the battle against the droid tank).

 

This was valid for all members of the active group.

 

This trick seems to stop working and I have not noticed this in the list of things changed by TSLRCM 1.5 or 1.6.

 

Is it voluntary?

 

TTLan

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Bugs, we fix.

 

It's what we do...

[Guest staticjoe66]

It wasn't a bug, it was a feature--sorry, old Windoze joke...

 

 

Bugs, we fix.

 

It's what we do...

[ttlan 18]

Ok.

 

Hi staticjoe66,

I also think it was a feature and not a bug at all. But all the game is too easy and adding some difficulties is a good thing.

 

The way the game has been developed, in terms of difficulties, and in terms of indexes given to solve enigmas, is inherently annoying and too easy. It seems that Obsidian was afraid of their players and has brought everything on a platter.

 

It is true that K2 is not at all a fun game. It is dark and serious and must be seen as a turning point in the Expanded Universe. The challenge, and it is great, is the interpretation we can give at little bits of clues given about past events for wich we do not know anything and for witch we must traverse this adventure several times, in all cases (LS, DS, male, female etc.. ...) and constantly seek to obtain all the dialogues options with everyone.

 

The goal of this game is the dialogues and their interpretations.

 

It is very complicated and Obsidian did a fabulous job that must be restored to his place, at the pinnacle of the videogames and the center of the Expanded Universe, as ANH.

 

What a pity it was released too quickly.

 

TTLan

[Guest staticjoe66]

ttlan I disagree--I think both KOTOR's were fun games, were they too easy? Of course and the modding community made that fact ever more true than it already was but to me you need to look a little deeper than that taking into account how many ways you can finish the game combining alignment with class. One of my major gripes with both games is the player is pretty much railroaded into taking a fighter--why? Because the end bosses are pretty much immune to all of your offensive Force powers so you're stuck throwing them a beat down. You cannot beat Malak with the Force powers available in KOTOR just like you cannot beat Nihilus or Kreia/Traya with Force powers available in TSL--you must engage and defeat all of them in melee combat. Sure, you can use Force powers to augment and enhance your skills--as well as on the Star Forge use Stasis Field or Death Field preventing Malak from using the "dead" Jedi to recharge--but in both games the boss battles come down to lightsaber combat and you cannot win those battle with the Force unless you install a mod.

 

Don't get me wrong--I LOVE mods and they make already fun games much more enjoyable as well as add replay value because there's always a new mod to try be it a new head, new skin, new armor/robes what have you--I'm too dumb to be a modder so I'm glad there are people out there smarter than me whom can do it.

 

Your concerns are certainly valid and duly noted but there's a reason we still play KOTOR I and II and I'll even throw TFU in there...because at our Trayus Cores we are all Star Wars fans and there is some something so inherently cool about picking up a lightsaber and using the Force...especially from the Dark Side...

 

 

Ok.

 

Hi staticjoe66,

I also think it was a feature and not a bug at all. But all the game is too easy and adding some difficulties is a good thing.

 

The way the game has been developed, in terms of difficulties, and in terms of indexes given to solve enigmas, is inherently annoying and too easy. It seems that Obsidian was afraid of their players and has brought everything on a platter.

 

It is true that K2 is not at all a fun game. It is dark and serious and must be seen as a turning point in the Expanded Universe. The challenge, and it is great, is the interpretation we can give at little bits of clues given about past events for wich we do not know anything and for witch we must traverse this adventure several times, in all cases (LS, DS, male, female etc.. ...) and constantly seek to obtain all the dialogues options with everyone.

 

The goal of this game is the dialogues and their interpretations.

 

It is very complicated and Obsidian did a fabulous job that must be restored to his place, at the pinnacle of the videogames and the center of the Expanded Universe, as ANH.

 

What a pity it was released too quickly.

 

TTLan

[Markus Ramikin 107]

One of my major gripes with both games is the player is pretty much railroaded into taking a fighter--why? Because the end bosses are pretty much immune to all of your offensive Force powers so you're stuck throwing them a beat down. You cannot beat Malak with the Force powers available in KOTOR just like you cannot beat Nihilus or Kreia/Traya with Force powers available in TSL--you must engage and defeat all of them in melee combat.

 

Totally disagree. You can completely own Malak at max difficulty with the right Force powers, if you have a correctly developed Consular and a good strategy. No need for melee, no need for shields, mines etc, just straight Force Powers. He doesn't stand a chance.

 

Same with Sion. And same with Traya, but with her you have to try and stay out of her range a bit more. But it's still very doable.

 

You just have to know what you're doing.

 

I love the Consular class btw as an idea, a concept. If I ever played a multiplayer RPG game of any sort that involved Jedi, I'd totally be a consular.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Guest staticjoe66]

Fair enough Markus, how do you do it? The reason I ask is because I may have to start a new playthrough and would LOVE to try your strategy

 

 

 

Totally disagree. You can completely own Malak at max difficulty with the right Force powers, if you have a correctly developed Consular and a good strategy. No need for melee, no need for shields, mines etc, just straight Force Powers. He doesn't stand a chance.

 

Same with Sion. And same with Traya, but with her you have to try and stay out of her range a bit more. But it's still very doable.

 

You just have to know what you're doing.

 

I love the Consular class btw as an idea, a concept. If I ever played a multiplayer RPG game of any sort that involved Jedi, I'd totally be a consular.

[ttlan 18]

Hi staticjoe66

 

ttlan I disagree--I think both KOTOR's were fun games, were they too easy?...

 

I do not agree with you. K1 is fun, it is a game with many fights and much more sophisticated enigmas. It goes on a unique event on a unique place : a nexus is broken - the star forge.

 

K2 is cold and dark, even sinister. Ok, there is some fighting in K2, but there is, primarily, something much more important, a disruption of the Universe. The two orders able to manipulate the Force are eradicated. And there are so many things mentioned in the form of non-words, in veiled evocations of tracks barely indicated, in doors open but without a way to go ... Here is the interest of K2: analysing the text.

 

Regarding the fights in K2:

For reasons of test and debug, I redo, at each walk through this adventure, every action, every fight, about 20 times. Now I have crossed this entire adventure about 250 times. So I probably made each fight about 500 times. I think I know a little about what I am talking.

 

The fights, in K2, are not only easy but without interest. It is rare to be able to deploy a fight strategy with several (maybe 3 times in all and for all). We are rarely in danger. The fights, in K2, are something marginal compared to the analysis of texts.

 

TTLan

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Heh, even as Jedi Sentinel/Sith Assassin I can Force Crush Sion and Kreia to dead without bringing out my saber.

That power is just so overpowered...

[Guest staticjoe66]

I will agree TSL is the lesser game but it is still fun especially with the restored content installed while at the same time neither primary antagonist in either game--Malak in KOTOR and Nihilus then Kreia/Traya in TSL--was very convincing. Malak was/is a complete joke and Nihilus is no better--Kreia sicking the 3 sabers on you was an interesting twist but after the first time it's been there done that, next. The first time you meet Sion on the Harbinger is pretty cool then having to erode his will to defeat him on Malachor was pretty interesting but again the first time there's no more whoa factor.

 

The first I played through TSL I did so with just the 1.0b patch installed, no mods at all...not even the KSE...all I had was the walkthrough off gamefaqs.com...the kinrath matriarch was a tough beast to take down even with Knight Speed and a melee shield.

 

The fights in TSL are pretty lame--why the game's animation has you do that stupid looking spin attack during a Master Flurry is beyond me. Animations aside I didn't notice any combat differences between the two games.

 

TSL does indeed have darker undertones--you're one of the last Jedi and find out at the end the person training you to feel the Force again has been using and manipulating you all along setting up a final showdown which will decide the fate of the galaxy and the Force...not a bad day at the office but I do see where you're coming from.

 

 

 

Hi staticjoe66

 

 

 

I do not agree with you. K1 is fun, it is a game with many fights and much more sophisticated enigmas. It goes on a unique event on a unique place : a nexus is broken - the star forge.

 

K2 is cold and dark, even sinister. Ok, there is some fighting in K2, but there is, primarily, something much more important, a disruption of the Universe. The two orders able to manipulate the Force are eradicated. And there are so many things mentioned in the form of non-words, in veiled evocations of tracks barely indicated, in doors open but without a way to go ... Here is the interest of K2: analysing the text.

 

Regarding the fights in K2:

For reasons of test and debug, I redo, at each walk through this adventure, every action, every fight, about 20 times. Now I have crossed this entire adventure about 250 times. So I probably made each fight about 500 times. I think I know a little about what I am talking.

 

The fights, in K2, are not only easy but without interest. It is rare to be able to deploy a fight strategy with several (maybe 3 times in all and for all). We are rarely in danger. The fights, in K2, are something marginal compared to the analysis of texts.

 

TTLan

[Guest staticjoe66]

I usually use Force Crush against Revan on Korriban then beat down Sion and Kreia with my saber

 

 

 

Heh, even as Jedi Sentinel/Sith Assassin I can Force Crush Sion and Kreia to dead without bringing out my saber.

That power is just so overpowered...

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Fair enough Markus, how do you do it? The reason I ask is because I may have to start a new playthrough and would LOVE to try your strategy

 

I actually had a guide for beating Malak as a Consular written up. (I like to write things up that I don't necessarily share with anyone, I feel writing improves my thinking). Let me look it up.

 

Ah. There we go. Uploaded it for you.

http://markusramikin.webs.com/MalakK1.html

 

Against Kotor 2 enemies and bosses it's more or less the same, maximise the DC and have a Force power ready for any type of save. Kreia's floating lightsabers are weak-willed, you can beat them with Horror + Force Storm spam

 

That's a lightside guide btw. If you're DS, I suspect Force Kill is the way to go against Malak, as it'd be much cheaper. Then again, your DC will be lower if you're DS. Haven't really looked into beating Malak as a DS Consular, my DS playthrough was with a Guardian.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I will agree TSL is the lesser game

Eeeeeeh... you mean combat-wise, right?

I usually use Force Crush against Revan on Korriban then beat down Sion and Kreia with my saber

Cheating, right? Since you can't have Crush at that point while just playing the game legit.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Oh, and for me, Kotor 2 is vastly better than K1.

 

K1 is a nice, well rounded, simple Star Wars game. It's good, but it's nothing special.

 

Kotor 2 is an unfinished, unpolished gem. It has something that makes it stand out: the writing, the characters, the more serious themes. I mean it even has Kreia, the best written character in history of computer gaming. If this game had been properly polished off, it would have been another Planescape:Torment.

 

But then again, combat is pretty secondary for me in a game like this.

[Guest staticjoe66]

Eeeeeeh... you mean combat-wise, right?

 

There is a lot to like about TSL--starting the game as Jedi is a HUGE plus as is being able to level up all the way to 50. The TSLRCM as well as other restored content mods make the game much more fun as well as adding replay value--all that said, KOTOR I is still a better game...sorry HH

 

 

 

Cheating, right? Since you can't have Crush at that point while just playing the game legit

 

 

Via KSE which, from a certain perspective, could be considered cheating I suppose wheras I embrace a larger view of possibilities now being able to equip my Exile with previously unequippable items and powers, not just the dogmatic narrow view of what the game gives you...

 

 

Eeeeeeh... you mean combat-wise, right?

 

Cheating, right? Since you can't have Crush at that point while just playing the game legit.

[Guest staticjoe66]

Very cool Markus--TYVM, I am definitely going to try this. Again, I felt railroaded into creating a hardcase melee fighter which I didn't like believing there should be a way to beat the games primarily as a Force user--why even have the Consular class if you can't finish the game with it? Is it a bit more difficult? Sure, that's to be expected but it's no different than going through D&D, Dragon Age and/or Oblivion as a mage/spellcaster.

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

I actually had a guide for beating Malak as a Consular written up. (I like to write things up that I don't necessarily share with anyone, I feel writing improves my thinking). Let me look it up.

 

Ah. There we go. Uploaded it for you.

http://markusramikin.webs.com/MalakK1.html

 

Against Kotor 2 enemies and bosses it's more or less the same, maximise the DC and have a Force power ready for any type of save. Kreia's floating lightsabers are weak-willed, you can beat them with Horror + Force Storm spam

 

That's a lightside guide btw. If you're DS, I suspect Force Kill is the way to go against Malak, as it'd be much cheaper. Then again, your DC will be lower if you're DS. Haven't really looked into beating Malak as a DS Consular, my DS playthrough was with a Guardian.

[ttlan 18]

hi,

 

Oh, and for me, Kotor 2 is vastly better than K1.

 

K1 is a nice, well rounded, simple Star Wars game. It's good, but it's nothing special.

 

Kotor 2 is an unfinished, unpolished gem. It has something that makes it stand out: the writing, the characters, the more serious themes. I mean it even has Kreia, the best written character in history of computer gaming. If this game had been properly polished off, it would have been another Planescape:Torment.

 

But then again, combat is pretty secondary for me in a game like this.

 

Everything is said. Nothing to add.

 

I regret that I do not have an enough fluent English. I could take time to translate some of my pages, like those developing events that are supposed to take place five or six days before the beginning of K2. There are so many false things, when they are not stupidities, written in the web pages that reference!

 

Kreia is one of the greatest Lord in the Star Wars Universe. It is the only lord who succeeded in eradicating the two denominations of the Force and she has designed and implemented a new, unified and non-destructive, education.

 

Years later, what she has established will disappear and the usual dichotomy will reappear. But she has created the biggest upheaval in the Star Wars Force Universe since the Force has been discovered, controlled and manipulated (since 27,700 BBY). Nothing has been as powerful as what she did, not even ANH.

 

Kreia must take / resume its place in the SW pantheon. She has been stronger than Darth Nihilus although he is the most dangerous Lord that the galaxy has ever known (and we do not know nothing about him except what Visas says : a man... only a man).

 

Both of them were improperly used. Kreia by excessive discretion as she works in the shade (but she wants to prove she was right, as she wants to leave a trail for future generations (and this is why she does not seek to destroy the Force, contrary to what everyone interprets, because the Force is, according to G. Lucas, a fluid created by life (I'm not sure that this is what he was trying to tell the time and this interpretation could be the "original sin" - but that's another debate)) - with no life, she could not prove anything to anyone)) and the Nihilus character is totally unused.

 

I think Obsidian has not been proud of his work (by the fault of LucasArts) and that the promotion of this game was not made because of this.

 

The original screenplay work and literary work are masterpieces of the genre, massacred for a contemptible cause of money.

 

The work on arms and armors and at the workbench, the possibility of choosing one among several forms of combat, with melee weapons as with the Force powers, tricks (XBox version) adding hours of gameplay etc.. ...

 

This game is one that has the longest life time.

 

What has created Obsidian is not a sequel to K1 (even if one finds some characters created by BioWare), but an event that allows BioWare to lauch TOR.

 

"Kotor 2 is an unfinished, unpolished gem" but, as is, it is already the greatest game in the SW Universe for the greatest event having a meaning in the SW Universe.

 

TTLan

 

Recent History - zoom on the last week

Kotor 2 - Histoire r?cente - zoom sur la derni?re semaine

 

I did not understood anything at Kotor 2

J'ai rien compris ? Kotor 2

[Guest staticjoe66]

I mean it even has Kreia, the best written character in history of computer gaming

 

Kreia is one of the greatest Lord in the Star Wars Universe.

 

Kreia must take / resume its place in the SW pantheon. She has been stronger than Darth Nihilus

 

 

Agreed--Kreia is one of the most well written characters with some of the best dialogue in any game, period

 

 

 

Darth Nihilus although he is the most dangerous Lord that the galaxy has ever known

 

 

The ONLY reason Nihilus isn't the biggest chumpzilla in the games is because Malak already holds that title--the Exile takes Nihilus down in literally less than one minute. I know Nihilus was created by the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator being one of the only survivors--he's still a gump putting up no more a fight than Malak did and while the game builds up him up to be this fearsome Force gobbling Sith Lord, Force Immunity, Master Energy Resistance, Master Speed and in mere seconds he goes down like a sack of potatoes...again, like Malak, Nihilus is a punk...

 

 

The game is very good--it didn't win all those GOTY awards for no reason although I still say KOTOR I is better--and the restoration of the cut content makes it even a better game which is why all these years later mods are still being released for it and people are still playing it

 

 

 

hi,

 

 

 

Everything is said. Nothing to add.

 

I regret that I do not have an enough fluent English. I could take time to translate some of my pages, like those developing events that are supposed to take place five or six days before the beginning of K2. There are so many false things, when they are not stupidities, written in the web pages that reference!

 

Kreia is one of the greatest Lord in the Star Wars Universe. It is the only lord who succeeded in eradicating the two denominations of the Force and she has designed and implemented a new, unified and non-destructive, education.

 

Years later, what she has established will disappear and the usual dichotomy will reappear. But she has created the biggest upheaval in the Star Wars Force Universe since the Force has been discovered, controlled and manipulated (since 27,700 BBY). Nothing has been as powerful as what she did, not even ANH.

 

Kreia must take / resume its place in the SW pantheon. She has been stronger than Darth Nihilus although he is the most dangerous Lord that the galaxy has ever known (and we do not know nothing about him except what Visas says : a man... only a man).

 

Both of them were improperly used. Kreia by excessive discretion as she works in the shade (but she wants to prove she was right, as she wants to leave a trail for future generations (and this is why she does not seek to destroy the Force, contrary to what everyone interprets, because the Force is, according to G. Lucas, a fluid created by life (I'm not sure that this is what he was trying to tell the time and this interpretation could be the "original sin" - but that's another debate)) - with no life, she could not prove anything to anyone)) and the Nihilus character is totally unused.

 

I think Obsidian has not been proud of his work (by the fault of LucasArts) and that the promotion of this game was not made because of this.

 

The original screenplay work and literary work are masterpieces of the genre, massacred for a contemptible cause of money.

 

The work on arms and armors and at the workbench, the possibility of choosing one among several forms of combat, with melee weapons as with the Force powers, tricks (XBox version) adding hours of gameplay etc.. ...

 

This game is one that has the longest life time.

 

What has created Obsidian is not a sequel to K1 (even if one finds some characters created by BioWare), but an event that allows BioWare to lauch TOR.

 

"Kotor 2 is an unfinished, unpolished gem" but, as is, it is already the greatest game in the SW Universe for the greatest event having a meaning in the SW Universe.

 

TTLan

 

Recent History - zoom on the last week

Kotor 2 - Histoire r?cente - zoom sur la derni?re semaine

 

I did not understood anything at Kotor 2

J'ai rien compris ? Kotor 2

[Markus Ramikin 107]

I'm not sure I agree with ttlan about just what makes Kreia great. Her impact on the Star Wars universe is not what really interests me; anyone who has creative control over a work can write a character that one-ups anything others have done. Also, Kotor 2's interpretation of the Force is questionable (though interesting).

 

And within SW, to say that LS and DS are mere sides and the narrow view, and instead try to place yourself above both, is, as writing goes, a cheap trick. Anyone can do it, when presented with two sides of a conflict, say that both are wrong/incomplete. What's really interesting is writing that actually does show one of them as the right answer, because that's actually harder to do right.

 

No. What I find great about Kreia is the way she is written as a person, aside of Star Wars themes. She's a great female character - you don't get a lot of good female characters in games. She's got a strong protective mother theme, for instance, but it's so twisted and insidious, I love it. As Scorchy said in his epicly great Let's Play Kotor 2 , she lies and lies and does it so well that even after the game is over you're still probably not aware of some of the thing she said and what they really meant. This is partly because so much of the story is disclosed to the player by her, so she's more in control of what you know about everything than one initially realizes.

 

And I love her approach to moral choices. In Kotor 1, it was so childishly simple (though correct in SW terms). You give money to a beggar = LS points. Idiotic. In Kotor 2, that's still there, but on top of that there's Kreia's approval - and for that, it doesn't really matter if you're LS or DS, but if you're cunning, foreseeing and mindful of consequences. For me, part of the fun was beating the game with max LS points AND maxing Kreia's influence at the same time.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[Guest staticjoe66]

Markus TYVM for the KOTOR 2 link--I had that link once before and lost it, one of the many times I reinstalled Winblows but forgot to back up and save my favorites...

 

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with ttlan about just what makes Kreia great. Her impact on the Star Wars universe is not what really interests me; anyone who has creative control over a work can write a character that one-ups anything others have done. Also, Kotor 2's interpretation of the Force is questionable (though interesting).

 

And within SW, to say that LS and DS are mere sides and the narrow view, and instead try to place yourself above both, is, as writing goes, a cheap trick. Anyone can do it, when presented with two sides of a conflict, say that both are wrong/incomplete. What's really interesting is writing that actually does show one of them as the right answer, because that's actually harder to do right.

 

No. What I find great about Kreia is the way she is written as a person, aside of Star Wars themes. She's a great female character - you don't get a lot of good female characters in games. She's got a strong protective mother theme, for instance, but it's so twisted and insidious, I love it. As Scorchy said in his epicly great Let's Play Kotor 2 , she lies and lies and does it so well that even after the game is over you're still probably not aware of some of the thing she said and what they really meant. This is partly because so much of the story is disclosed to the player by her, so she's more in control of what you know about everything than one initially realizes.

 

And I love her approach to moral choices. In Kotor 1, it was so childishly simple (though correct in SW terms). You give money to a beggar = LS points. Idiotic. In Kotor 2, that's still there, but on top of that there's Kreia's approval - and for that, it doesn't really matter if you're LS or DS, but if you're cunning, foreseeing and mindful of consequences. For me, part of the fun was beating the game with max LS points AND maxing Kreia's influence at the same time.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

I had just googled it.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

What a coincidence, reading it just now again too 0_0.

 

And yeah, googled it too. First hit for "Let's play KOTOR2"

[Guest staticjoe66]

Which reminds me...I had forgotten gamefaqs.com has a "Pure Caster" guide featuring the aforementioned Consular and the Let's Play KOTOR 2 walkthrough also features a Consular Exile

 

 

 

I had just googled it.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Well yeah, though Scorchy's Consular was a shooter.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Sorry to necro, but I put a link to my "guide" thing for beating Malak with Force Powers in this thread, and this might be as good a place as any to discuss developments.

 

This -would- imply that we only have to fail a Whirlwind twice too many to run out of Force Points, but every time I've tried this - and I tried many times - I still had over 100 FP left by the time Malak died. I'm honestly not sure why.

This was written with the assumption that I don't regenerate Force Points at all during combat, or at least very slowly. It certainly seemed that way last time I played the game.

 

However, I reloaded some K1 saves today to check some things (oh, the pain of getting K1 to work on Windows 7) and I noticed that my Force Points were in fact renegerating during combat. In the Malak fight, they were regenerating crazy fast, so I was at zero risk of running out no matter what I did. That's kind of sad, really, because I expect it will remove the difficulty and therefore the fun from the pre-Malak near-infinite wave of enemies if I ever choose to replay K1... but I digress.

 

I am wondering if this game suffers from the same problem as some of the very old DOS games, where some effects are directly tied to processor speed, and the better your computer, the faster they will happen.

 

Anyone here able to shed some light on the matter?

 

EDIT: or is it because I am playing the game patched this time, so the regeneration from items works?

 

EDIT2: no wait, I don't have any items with +regen...

Edited December 2, 2010 by Markus Ramikin