TSLRCM with optional instalation

[Hassat Hunter 571]

First off all; what additional convo between Visas and Mandalore on Malachor? There is... absolutely... none. So it's just the loading screen, nothing more.

Second; If we made the HK factory without adding content it would pretty much fade to black after the meeting with the HK-50's in the main hall, since, guess what... THERE WAS NO ENDING. Also that would mean no HK vs. G0T0 on Malachor, or only one pre-defined one, no choices.

Third; Ravager Re-write is by Zbyl, not Stoney.

I'm not asking them to do any MORE SERIOUS WORK!!!

Yes, yes, you are.

As I have understood, Hassat did't made Kaeve or V-M dialog, he is tasked in fixing bugs (please correct me if I'm am wrong). And removing them should have minimal impact on his personal area of work.

So, because of that, I should completely disregard the work others put into the mod???

I don't know how much times I have to say this, I DON'T ask them to discard ANYTHING that has been done so far, nor to CHANGE any of it. Just to move it part of it from core TSLRCM to standalone install (pack), or to THEIR OWN other mod projects, that ARE already been worked on. Not to give it to somebody else, but to use them themselves. If they want to change it later, or leave it as it is, whatever. Suits me eather case. I will use them whatsoever.

Then why remove them from TSLRCM in the first place, if everyone is going to use them regardless? Also seperate mods, as I said before, leads to huge mod conflicts. Do you want people unable to use other mods just because they want the full TSLRCM package? Cause that doesn't sound like an improvement to me...

And yes, seperating it does take a pretty big amount of work, definitely in Kaevee's case.

More specifficaly, VPuppet is already planning to insert and improve this scene in Malachor VI REGARDLESS of the outcome of this discussion, which makes amount of additional work by rest of the team around Ravager issue to practically negligible (as I will explain below).

Well, that explains all.

Want to remove HK/Goto too, how about all the rest of the restored content. After all another mod will add to it later, what's the point of having it in TSLRCM, right?

Heck, we should just drop our effort. TSLRP might come around a day making it obsolete, better to not make anything at all and prepare for that...

And V-M dialogue has NOTHING to do with me "liking" it or not. Point is that it ISN'T properly restored and that's a fact. And that's why it needs later proper fixing outside of TSLRCM. But if you like them so much, you can install them separately, in this current state, from standalone pack and you have lost one big NOTHING.

If it's so bad, why not keep it in and install a "fix" ontop of 1.8 later if anyone makes it? Say, the MV-I mod you revere? So everyone can benefit of the scene, even though it may be "inferior" to you.

Yes, some of the cut content may be a bit jarring, but at least unless it's utterly out-of-place, I say it's better in than out, won't you say?

Look how many people still use 1.5 (unpatched too, Red Eclipse issue) from FilePlanet. What would happen if there are 5 seperate add-onsv for 1.8?).

If TSLRCM crew want it I can send it to them, and their job is only to swap two files with the SAME NAME and rebuild 852NIH.mod module in KOTOR Tool. Which, really, is a few minutes work (I know, I have done it). Installing script for 1.8 (or whatever that is used) needs not to change by a SINGLE BIT...

True. But you disregard the amount of work that needs to be done to re-add it in a seperate add-on. Disabling any particular part of TSLRCM is mostly prettty easy. Having to locate all files for a seperate mod, make installer, have no conflicts etc.? That takes quite a bit more time...

And that little file has absolutely NO impact on the rest of the game, and so introduces absolutely NO new bugs, in case that anyone thinks that I want to swarm Hassat or anybody else with tons of new work to deal with.

Using that and a seperate add-on to re-add it might. And what if the seperate add-ons all modify, say, global.jrl? (like splitting Kaevee and say, the JJT Sullustan) We need 5 variations of one file, and have to install the right one. Oh, joy!

And if removing Kaeve from MAIN TSLRCM install is such a problem, I'm ready to help with dialogs and some scripting, just will possibly need a few pointers from more experienced modders what should be done, and to point me in right direction so I don't loose my time wandering around files aimlessly and lose a few globals in the process and such... But considering that they know what they have changed I should know what to modify quickly, right?

Just make it so after killing the whats-it-called-again no longer the cutscene runs. Done. Sure, she's not deleted, but you got what you wanted...

[Working Class Hero 12]

You could at least have her lines re-recorded...I know that logan23 has contacted a few female voice actors for RoR, perhaps you could do the same?

Edited September 15, 2011 by Working Class Hero

[Guest Pavijan357]

First off all; what additional convo between Visas and Mandalore on Malachor? There is... absolutely... none. So it's just the loading screen, nothing more.

 

How 'bout this these lines : Visas - " I know what it meant to you, to accompany me here Canderous of clan Ordo. Your trust honers me", than later accompanied by Madnalore's - "This world is taboo to Mandalorians, .... I can't say that I'm happy to be back here..." . You may recognize the Visas's line. It's from the part that is so blatantly forced at the end of Mandalore's dialog at beginning of Ravager, despite of that the scene obviously ended, end there was even fade to black... Why would it MEAN something to him to accompany her to Ravager? It's clear where it should be settled. (It's just one of the "little" things I didn't whine about...) As of his lines about Malachor, who do you think he is talking to? Sith Assassins? Storm Beasts? :-)

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Okay VP enters and clears the room.

 

If you don't like that aspect of the project: mod it out. It's as simple as that.... well okay it's not as simple as that but it's the only way you're going to get anywhere with this subject. Hassat, Stoney and zbyl have worked hard on this project, and while not all of it may not be to our liking, it is rude to ask them to deliberately take out things. Hell, if they hadn't made this, we wouldn't be here right now bitching about it.

 

So, the point is, if you want it out - mod it out. A smaller install that left room for customization would be better, but if they don't want to do it, we have to respect that. And actually, in terms of modifying TSLRCM, it might be easier to deactivate certain scenes than not having them present and then trying to add them in with optional installs.

 

I know for sure I'm not going to segment my Malachor VI mod. It all goes together, and to ask for only some parts of it would be stupid.

[Guest Pavijan357]

Sorry about this I just need to clear some things out:

 

Second; If we made the HK factory without adding content it would pretty much fade to black after the meeting with the HK-50's in the main

hall, since, guess what... THERE WAS NO ENDING. Also that would mean no HK vs. G0T0 on Malachor, or only one pre-defined one, no choices.

 

When exactly was I complaining about added content in HK Factory? Everybody knows that it was necessary for it to exist in playable form in

 

the first place...

 

Third; Ravager Re-write is by Zbyl, not Stoney.

Thank you. It was along time since I have seen it.

 

So, because of that, I should completely disregard the work others put into the mod???

 

Boy, do you like to misinterpret my words... it's astonishing! I was referring to this :

 

It is really annoying to read all this criticism when Hassat Hunter has done all he can to give us an enjoyable experience.

I was pointing out that it wasn't just YOU that gave us all this things. And separate from that this shouldn't make your life much harder.

As I am lead to believe, what goes in what mod, is decision that all members of the team that is developing should make and I'm giving this suggestion to ALL of you, not you in particular Hassat. If you are against, you are, (as it's clear) and there is obviously nothing reasonable that can say to convince you otherwise. But I would like to hear opinions from other members of the team also. Especialy since I'm not proposing any "discarding" of any material that you all are consistently accusing me of...

 

Then why remove them from TSLRCM in the first place, if everyone is going to use them regardless?

Who said that EVERYONE is going to use them. I particularly won't use them at all in my regular playthroughs. I prefer to play with absolutely NO mods (apart of TSLRCM which I look on more as patch, as I have allready sid). For my usage of the I was referring to the situation when all the restoration mods come out, then I will install them all together, along with Kaeve (whatever state she is), then mod the s...t out of game with best quality mods that I can fild everywhere, and than go nuts... But in will be just one playthrough, and than come back to the clear one. Without all of them. But even if I would do that now, I wouldn't use V-M conversation addon as it is. Never.

And lots of my friends like to play with absolute minimum mods installed, so they also won't be using them.

 

Well, that explains all.

Want to remove HK/Goto too, how about all the rest of the restored content. After all another mod will add to it later, what's the point of

having it in TSLRCM, right?

 

If it's so bad, why not keep it in and install a "fix" ontop of 1.8 later if anyone makes it? Say, the MV-I mod you revere? So everyone can benefit of the scene, even though it may be "inferior" to you.

 

It explains what? That even when "my revered M-VI", as you say, comes out, I would prefere for it to have parts with MUCH more additional content that it is now, and keep my REALLY revered TSLRCM with absolute needed minimum of it (as it is now beeng developed in case of G0T0/Factory))?

 

Heck, we should just drop our effort. TSLRP might come around a day making it obsolete, better to not make anything at all and prepare for that...

Well adding "everything restored just for being restored" just as those controversial ones, is just the TSLRP way of thinking, so it's better for you to not go that way...

 

unless it's utterly out-of-place, I say it's better in than out, won't you say?

Exactly. Point is - it is out of place...

 

True. But you disregard the amount of work that needs to be done to re-add it in a seperate add-on. Disabling any particular part of TSLRCM is mostly pretty easy. Having to locate all files for a seperate mod, make installer, have no conflicts etc.? That takes quite a bit more

time...

 

Are you telling me that making TSLPacther installation which would just add one, (completely non-conflict, not used by and known mod, now and planed), file which would enable scene again for those who want it, without altering anything else, so no 2da editing, no module unpacking or installation, would need big amount of effort, and upon installation create all kind of bugs that would melt your planets in the game and make globals go nuts? Kaeve could be something else, but this...?

 

What would happen if there are 5 seperate add-onsv for 1.8?).

 

Using that and a seperate add-on to re-add it might. And what if the seperate add-ons all modify, say, global.jrl? (like splitting Kaevee and say, the JJT Sullustan) We need 5 variations of one file, and have to install the right one. Oh, joy!

 

Just make it so after killing the whats-it-called-again no longer the cutscene runs. Done. Sure, she's not deleted, but you got what you wanted...

 

First let's not mention Sullustan or any other thing , that is not in the discussion... I beleave that we have established there are not other wrongly placed (like V-M) or liked/disliked in such amount (like Kaeve) content in play here. So there are not 5 but only 2 add-ons we are talking about.

 

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but are there not at least 3 (and eventually maybe 4) different BIG addons that are being developed to work perfectly compatible not only with TSLRCM, but among themselves also. Some, probably all, will edit global.jrl and MUCH more than that.

 

Imagine their JOY and whet they all need to take care of...

If anything, disabling of V-M scene should at least remove one compatibility issue for creators of "my beloved M-VI", and it doesn't conflict with any other mod. Of coursce those who don't want M-VI can install V-M addon and vice versa. So they shouldn't be compatible anyway. Some people want neither of it...

 

Concerning Kaeve if we cand disable her so easily. We can do it by default and leave all her data in, so we could make small enabler for add-on using just needed files for it. Voila! So work is minimal again. And all planed rest. mods shouldn't touch anything near her anyway so

compatibility is maximal. I could take care for disabler/ensbler files with this advice you gave me. And your job is just two small installers.

Frankly, something like this is what I had in mind whole time... Never thought about totally "ripping" her or the dialogue form physical TSLRCM files...

 

So, what say you now?

[Guest Pavijan357]

Okay VP enters and clears the room.

 

If you don't like that aspect of the project: mod it out. It's as simple as that.... well okay it's not as simple as that but it's the only way you're going to get anywhere with this subject. Hassat, Stoney and zbyl have worked hard on this project, and while not all of it may not be to our liking, it is rude to ask them to deliberately take out things. Hell, if they hadn't made this, we wouldn't be here right now bitching about it.

 

So, the point is, if you want it out - mod it out. A smaller install that left room for customization would be better, but if they don't want to do it, we have to respect that. And actually, in terms of modifying TSLRCM, it might be easier to deactivate certain scenes than not having them present and then trying to add them in with optional installs.

 

I know for sure I'm not going to segment my Malachor VI mod. It all goes together, and to ask for only some parts of it would be stupid.

 

Mod it out. Which is precisely what I want. You have run in with the post before me. Please read the post above however long it is, at is really all that wanted to generaly.

[zbyl2 811]

This discussion is going nowhere. TSLRCM will NOT be separated into smaller mods, restored content (such as Kaevee) will NOT be removed.

I'm having hard enough times putting together 1.8's installer as it is - because it actually feels like making six separate installers already, one for each language version.

 

"You want part of a mod out - mod it out". Well said. Simple as that. Nothing else you can do about it and nothing anyone is going to say will change my mind.

 

Thread locked. Move along.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Just a little adendum;

How 'bout this these lines : Visas - " I know what it meant to you, to accompany me here Canderous of clan Ordo. Your trust honers me", than later accompanied by Madnalore's - "This world is taboo to Mandalorians, .... I can't say that I'm happy to be back here..." . You may recognize the Visas's line. It's from the part that is so blatantly forced at the end of Mandalore's dialog at beginning of Ravager, despite of that the scene obviously ended, end there was even fade to black... Why would it MEAN something to him to accompany her to Ravager? It's clear where it should be settled. (It's just one of the "little" things I didn't whine about...) As of his lines about Malachor, who do you think he is talking to? Sith Assassins? Storm Beasts? :-)

You realise that these files on Malachor are leftover files of an older mod Zbyl made? The VO lines are in... *tum tum*, 851 and 852NIH. The Ravager...

The "taboo" lines are what you get if you ask 'What do you know of this planet' ON Malachor.

 

Don't confuse our scraps with what OE actually intended...

 

EDIT:

Also, Kaevee disabling can be done by a single file. But then you still break the Thief quest from Suulru.