Modding finesse for melee weapons into K1

[jacksuspenders 8]

Hello there.

I understand that the Finesse feats are unavailable in K1. Finesse does exist in K1, but only for lightsabers, and it's automatic for anyone using a lightsaber, rather than being a selectable feat.

I'm wondering if it's possible to make the effects of K1's finesse apply to melee weapons as well? Automatically, using the same mechanism the lightsabers use (whatever that is).

Or, on a related note, does anyone know how finesse for lightsabers is implemented in K1? I found one reference in the game's 2da files, in iprp_feats.2da. I think that might be a leftover from Neverwinter Nights though.

Thanks.

Edited October 9, 2021 by jacksuspenders

[TamerBill 135]

Unfortunately the basic attack roll mechanisms are hardcoded and can’t effectively be modded, including the mechanism behind finesse.

In terms of how the game sees it, it’s specifically looking for the three rows in baseitems.2da, the ones for lightsaber, shortsaber and doublesaber. Any weapon using those rows gains all the benefits of being a lightsaber, including blaster deflection, throw saber, and finesse.

TLDR: Gotta play TSL if you want melee weapon finesse.

[AmanoJyaku 183]

Are you turning Mission into a badass swordsman? 🤣She's the only person I can think of who'd benefit from Finesse since the rest of the non-Jedi organics in your party are biased towards strength.

In my experience, Dexterity is more significant in TSL. What kind of character are you building? I've got charts on character builds since the underlying mechanics is my greatest interest. Other modders produce HD models and textures, I calculate numbers.

[jacksuspenders 8]

2 hours ago, TamerBill said:

Unfortunately the basic attack roll mechanisms are hardcoded and can’t effectively be modded, including the mechanism behind finesse.

In terms of how the game sees it, it’s specifically looking for the three rows in baseitems.2da, the ones for lightsaber, shortsaber and doublesaber. Any weapon using those rows gains all the benefits of being a lightsaber, including blaster deflection, throw saber, and finesse.

TLDR: Gotta play TSL if you want melee weapon finesse.

If I'm understanding you correctly, then a vibrosword would use finesse if I changed its' Base Item to lightsaber? But there'd be other issues to resolve which would make it "problematic", like the sword getting a model change to a lightsaber hilt, requiring lightsaber feats, making lightsaber noises, dealing energy damage, and deflecting blaster bolts.

I suspect that I could fix the model and work around the feats, and maybe the blaster bolt deflection. I think the damage and the sounds might be impossible to fix. I suppose it's not really worth it, then. Thank you for your help, in any case.

 

53 minutes ago, AmanoJyaku said:

Are you turning Mission into a badass swordsman? 🤣She's the only person I can think of who'd benefit from Finesse since the rest of the non-Jedi organics in your party are biased towards strength.

In my experience, Dexterity is more significant in TSL. What kind of character are you building? I've got charts on character builds since the underlying mechanics is my greatest interest. Other modders produce HD models and textures, I calculate numbers.

I was looking to turn Mission into a swordsman. It seems odd that she has a vibroblade named after her, but has no idea how to use it effectively.

I was thinking about a solution that made some sense from an RP standpoint, which was why I went to finesse, as opposed to just modding her attributes out of dex and into str. It would be odd for a small teenaged girl to be as strong as Canderous.

[AmanoJyaku 183]

6 hours ago, jacksuspenders said:

I was looking to turn Mission into a swordsman. It seems odd that she has a vibroblade named after her, but has no idea how to use it effectively.

I was thinking about a solution that made some sense from an RP standpoint, which was why I went to finesse, as opposed to just modding her attributes out of dex and into str. It would be odd for a small teenaged girl to be as strong as Canderous.

I used to wonder about her vibroblade, as well. What I determined is it's purely an early-game weapon:

1. Mission is supposed to use it until you free Zaalbar
2. Zaalbar/Canderous is supposed to use it until you get something better

The Prototype Vibroblade is better in every way, so your primary sword-wielder will use that. You will have a light saber. Which leaves the third member. Unfortunately, Mission's Vibroblade easily gets outclassed soon after you become a Jedi. Keep in mind vibroblades are meant to be off-hand weapons, the best damage comes from vibroswords. Mission's vibroblade is better than the standard vibroblade., but it's still weak.

As for Mission herself, she makes a lousy sword-wielder because:

1. She has low hit points as a scoundrel
2. She starts with Dueling, wasting a feat
3. She's a scoundrel, so she has the fewest feats
4. She's a scoundrel, so she has 5-6 fewer points in Attack
5. She's a scoundrel, so she doesn't have the best armor unless she also has Dexterity mod +4/5

Taking all of this into account, Mission doesn't have the levels needed to overcome the limitations of her starting class. Even if you modded out the attributes and feats, the class progression is a problem.

Mission is meant to wield a singe blaster. Bump up her Dexterity and Intelligence, equip her with the Baragwin Shadow Armor and Cassus Fett's Heavy Pistol or Sith Assassin Pistol,  and let the combination of Master Sniper Shot and Sneak Attack drop enemies like flies.

[TamerBill 135]

13 hours ago, jacksuspenders said:

If I'm understanding you correctly, then a vibrosword would use finesse if I changed its' Base Item to lightsaber? But there'd be other issues to resolve which would make it "problematic", like the sword getting a model change to a lightsaber hilt, requiring lightsaber feats, making lightsaber noises, dealing energy damage, and deflecting blaster bolts.

If you just set the base type to lightsaber then it would be a lightsaber in all respects.

Theoretically you could repurpose one of the slots. Remove either shortsabers or doublesabers from the game, and change their old slot to have vibroblade appearance, sounds, damage type, feats etc. Never tried it but in theory that would work.