I shall become more powerful than ever

[Guest S4crifice]

Hey everyone,

I started to re-watch the old star wars movies and a question came up that i had for ever but didn't have anyone to answer it. So here goes:

In episode IV in the well-known battle between Obi-Wan and Vader when Obi-Wan says the famous line "strike me down and i will become more powerful than you can imagine",

what does it exactly mean?

I understand the part that he will become one with the Force and thus part of the "supreme" power if you will call it, but he is dead....I mean he can only influence the present as a spiritual guide, nothing more....No powers, no resurrection stuff, nothing...

So what is the hidden meaning that eludes me?

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

In episode IV in the well-known battle between Obi-Wan and Vader

 

Ah yes.

 

...Obi-Wan says the famous line "strike me down and i will become more powerful than you can imagine",

what does it exactly mean?

 

It's a stretch, but I think he was referring to the fact that if 'he' is killed, that he can fly around as a force ghost and help Luke become a Jedi. Knowledge is power, I guess.

[Heartseeker 10]

Force Ghost is one of the most powerful state one can achieve in the SW universe. As a jedi tradition, death is a part of life, and they're encouraged not to fear it, but embrace it, accept it when one's time comes. Hence the code "There's no death: There's the Force". But it can easily understood as when one's life ends, they become one with the force, like if they move on to heaven and such. But it's actually more than that, as it's hints a secret of "immortality" through becoming a Force entity, interact with anyone, anywhere in the galaxy and can not be harmed in any way. Imagine the wisdom one could gain in such form through the centuries or millenias of existance, which is not possible otherwise. How can one be defeated by an enemy when in this form ? Any mortal enemy can be eventually strike down and killed, theyir resources can be crippled, forced to yield if can not be killed, but a Force Ghost is invulnerable and it's patience is eternal. They can even contiune to train apprentices in this state, they can guide them and watch over them all the time, perhapds even better than they could when they were alive.

 

But it's should be noted that this even this state was temporary, as it's only a technique that allows force sensitives to keep their existance between life and afterlife, when the time comes (though it's varies) they shall move on to Netherworld of the Force, thus completing the cycle.

[MrPhil 58]

I would tend to believe that he means that even though Vader holds a grudge towards him, killing him won't appease him and thus, by submitting to his lust of vengeance, he'd give power to Ben. I'm sure it is more complex and could be explained better, but this has allways been what I tought to be the underlying message. "If you strike me down, I shall be more powerful than you could ever imagine." In other words: I am ready to face my destiny (every being lives and DIE, no mather what...), but obviously, you aren't. It'll make me powerful beyond your imagination, as you seems to think you will not meet your fate at all, illusionned as you are by the darker side.

[Guest S4crifice]

Originally Posted by Heartseeker

Force Ghost is one of the most powerful state one can achieve in the SW universe. As a jedi tradition, death is a part of life, and they're encouraged not to fear it, but embrace it, accept it when one's time comes. Hence the code "There's no death: There's the Force". But it can easily understood as when one's life ends, they become one with the force, like if they move on to heaven and such. But it's actually more than that, as it's hints a secret of "immortality" through becoming a Force entity, interact with anyone, anywhere in the galaxy and can not be harmed in any way. Imagine the wisdom one could gain in such form through the centuries or millenias of existance, which is not possible otherwise. How can one be defeated by an enemy when in this form ? Any mortal enemy can be eventually strike down and killed, theyir resources can be crippled, forced to yield if can not be killed, but a Force Ghost is invulnerable and it's patience is eternal. They can even contiune to train apprentices in this state, they can guide them and watch over them all the time, perhapds even better than they could when they were alive.

 

But it's should be noted that this even this state was temporary, as it's only a technique that allows force sensitives to keep their existance between life and afterlife, when the time comes (though it's varies) they shall move on to Netherworld of the Force, thus completing the cycle.

Ah, I didn't know that....Good explanation. Then another question arose. How come we only see Jedi Masters do this technique and not sith?

And why do their bodies disappear? what's up with that?

And another one, i read the comics (the old ones) about the old republic and when Ulic Quel-Droma died from the blaster shot he too disappeared ,even though he was cut off from the Force permanently. how could he do that if this is just a force technique? he can't use the force!

[MassShadowCreator 10]

this doesnt answer your question, but obi-wan got what he deserved, i mean, he cut of anakins remaining arm, and legs, so its only fair anakin gets revenge for it

[Heartseeker 10]

Ah, I didn't know that....Good explanation. Then another question arose. How come we only see Jedi Masters do this technique and not sith?

And why do their bodies disappear? what's up with that?

 

There were many Sith Lords assumed this form, like Marka Ragnos, Ajunta Pall, Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd and the list goes on. They infact are the responsibles for the fall of some of the greatest Jedi. Such as Exar Kun whom seduced by Freedon Nadd's Force Ghost and embraced the dark side inside Nadd's tomb in Dxun.

 

And why do their bodies disappear? what's up with that?

 

Not all Jedi dissappered upon the moment of being one with the Force. Qui-Gon Jinn's body was cremated but he came back from as a Force Ghost, in fact he was the first "recent" Jedi used this technique he then thought Master Yoda and he thought to Obi-Wan. Note that not all Jedi become Force Ghost by their "greatness" or "heroism". Some become so through virtue, and understanding of the Force.

 

To put it simply, imagine a Jedi understand the Force and it's way, as well as this Force Ghost technique so well, they can manipulate their body, to disintigrate and their souls to merge with the Force. By doing so they prevent their mortal body from strike down by their enemies, they simply "will their body" to dissolve and vanish and their souls (or essence or mind whatever you name it) to become a part of the Force. They simply leave their mortal bodies behind, and move on to the another existance, an existance between Life and Afterlife.

 

One can also learn how to be a Force ghost even after being killed. The whole "dissolve of the body" is simply a matter of choice. A Jedi can be choose to fight to death and become one with the Force after dying (providing he knows this technique or his understands Force enough to will it) or instead of fight to the end, when they see the they can not win or simply because they feel it's the right moment to do so, they can choose to leave the mortal existance and go on to the next state. Such as Obi-Wan did.

 

And another one, i read the comics (the old ones) about the old republic and when Ulic Quel-Droma died from the blaster shot he too disappeared ,even though he was cut off from the Force permanently. how could he do that if this is just a force technique? he can't use the force!

 

 

I understand your confusion but Ulic repent for all the evil he had done and during his dying moments Ulic asked for forgiveness, and redemption much like Anakin Skywalker's last moments, and thus he became one with the Force. Just because he's cut off from Force doesn't mean the Force is not there inside him. The Force flows through ALL life and it's everywhere. Besides it should be noted that Vima Sunrider said: Ulic Qel-Droma was unable to feel the Force, but he had the heart of a Jedi. By training Vima allowed Ulic to free himself of his guilty conscience, and at the end of his life Ulic finally forgave himself, reflecting on the good he had done and perhaps it is why he could became one with the Force. So his becoming one with the force was a bit mysterious for everyone, but then again the Force itself is mysterious.

[Heartseeker 10]

this doesnt answer your question, but obi-wan got what he deserved, i mean, he cut of anakins remaining arm, and legs, so its only fair anakin gets revenge for it

 

I don't think so. Obi-Wan never wanted things to end up like this. He didn't wanted to face Anakin as he told to Master Yoda, he was afraid if he couldn't find the strength to face his former apprentice-who was more like a brother to him-in mortal combat. He tried to reason with Anakin on Mustafar before combat and during the combat. And at the last moment, Obi-Wan wanted to finish their duel without striking him down he stated that "he had the high ground" which was a great advantage in blade-to-blade combat, and he knew what Anakin was going to do, leap on him with all his strength. But Anakin was tired, from over using his strentgh as he was fighting in Djem So technique. Obi-Wan on the other hand was defensive on Anakin, as he didn't wanted to kill him, he used his mastered form Soresu and instead of landing strong blows he simply parried and dodged his attacks without requiring to rely much on his strength, sometimes mixed his defensive style with acrobatic stlye of Ataru but only to match with Anakin's powerful, fast and relentless attacks. Anakin was all on offense, trying to dominate the duel between them his style was placed a heavy focus on brute strength and pure power, with wide, powerful strikes and parries followed immediately by counterattacks. He was also using Ataru technique at some parts, with utilizing Force Jump and Speed. Much like a Sith would do.

 

In the end Obi-Wan knew Anakin was tired. And he was going to desperately leap on him (fooled by his own overconfidence) Obi-Wan begged Anakin "not to try it" but when he did Obi-Wan saw his opening and at that point he either was going to let himself killed or do what he must and he made a Mou kei move, a circular attack aiming major limbs of the opponents especially against incoming aerial attackers. But had Obi-Wan choosed a wrong stance he would be incapaciated by Lord Vader's leaping strike.

 

I believe Obi-Wan only did what he must. Had he succeed killing Anakin, rather leave his fate to the Force by leaving him burning on the ground, the fate of the galaxy would be much different. His act of mercy however, only made things worse, Vader relentlessly hunt Obi-Wan down during the Great Jedi Purge. But it was his destiny, cause in the end, Anakin did restore the balance of the Force.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Heartseeker

[MassShadowCreator 10]

wow, u seriously pay alot of attention to all the small details...but now that i think about it, wha you say is true

[Heartseeker 10]

Glad if I could change your perspective on this matter. A lot meaning lays hidden under the details of the scenes we watch on movies

[MrPhil 58]

Well, it still bears lot of interpretation. After all, the only one that knows for sure what's the meaning of this sentence is none other than George Lucas himself...

[MassShadowCreator 10]

Perhaps even he doesnt know the emaning of the sentence, perhaps he just wrote the first thing that came to mind without thinking about it, but i doubt it

[jswartz0181 18]

but i doubt it

 

I don't.