Sithspecter

Sleheyron

470 posts in this topic

Multiple arenas is an interesting tidbit. Makes me wonder what kind of things could be going on, driving each arena.

Do they have a unique crowd? Does one arena cater to Robot Wars, while another wants blood and death, and another just wants a "no-harm-done" melee with a clear victor but no death? 

Lots of food for thought... Such a fertile ground for modding, and it sounds like there will be a real world that doesn't desperately need it :D

Regarding signage....

 

OOH SHINY!

I like all of the work, and the news. Thanks for the update!

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There were probably originally intended to be 4 arenas. Three are still left in the game files, with suffixes of A, B and D. They all have a little bit different ground floor plan, but the overall coliseum is the same. They will probably probably mostly be just death matches or matches where you get knocked unconscious like the Taris duel ring, with possibly a king-of-the-hill style match. I also have plans that half of the matches will be "Beast Battles" where you fight various creatures, leading up to and including Rancors/Terentateks.

I'm trying to figure out how it should work exactly, as the lightside implications of participating in death matches isn't great. But, they are also supposed to be gladiator matches. Maybe you would have the option to choose a King of the Hill style match versus the deathmatches when challenging the next team.

I'm glad you enjoy the signage.

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Sithspecter,

In the files as well as in the concept for Sleheyron, it stated that the Star Map was in a Volcano. I was reading various depictions of the journey on the planet and that's why I titled my track "Volcano Assault" on the KOTOR Piano project for the action piece on Sleheyron. Of course this was almost 5 years ago when I did that. Can you address any validity to there being a volcano in this mod? The droid on Dantooine refers to the planet as 'volcanic,' but other than that and the miserable way its described by Yuthura, there are few in-game descriptions of it. Just to clarify, I was pretty sure that the "barren" and "volcanic" confusion was cleared up long ago with Korriban being the barren planet and Sleheyron being the Volcanic one, though I could be wrong.

Also, I'm working on getting some instrument patches for my FL Studio that sound similar to what Jeremy Soule used for the creation of the KOTOR soundtrack in terms of winds and synths, and maybe a few tribal drums, and when this mod is more further along I will be able to draft two pieces of music, more if necessary, at the semi-professional style level so that it will be a new experience in-game without the clone effect of old music.

I think the sound of Sleheyron should be about 1/3 orchestral 1/3 industrial and 1/3 synthesizer mix with some soft drum underscoring a beat (a mix of Taris lower city, Anchorhead, and Dreshdae for example). For the action piece, I would like to make it fast, bombastic, with several crescendos to reflect the nature of fighting in the arena. I could perhaps do two action pieces, much like how most planets have 2 action tracks (Manaan has one for all above water fights and one for every under water fight, Tatooine has one that only plays in Anchorhead (and if you play vanilla game this track only plays one time!) as well as one track that plays in the dunes and a third that plays in the tusken enclave, and again re-used in rakata clans). The second action piece for Sleheyron would play anytime there is a fight or scuffle not in the arenas, and would be much lower in forcefulness similar to the track black vulkar gang. What do you think? 

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There's actually no evidence that I've found that suggests that Sleheyron is the Volcanic planet. Actually, there's more evidence to suggest that it's the barren planet. In fact, KotOR lists Korriban's terrain as "Volcanic Mountain Ranges" in the galaxy map:

wJ3D2FY.jpg

So as far as I have found, there's no evidence present that the Star Map should be in a volcano or that Sleheyron is even a volcanic planet. I believe that stems from the inaccurate assumption that Korriban is the barren planet, and evidence says otherwise. If you can point me to a legitimate original source that says otherwise I will be happy to reconsider.

In regards to music, I am planning on re-using the originals that were intended for Sleheyron. I think they fit very well and I like them. I am also somewhat skeptical that you will be able to create a similar track in both style and quality, but I would be happy to be proven wrong. Do you have any similar samples that I could listen to?

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Edge of the Empire described Sleheyron as volcanic, actually:

9pKJolm.png

I'm not sure what is up with the galaxy map description of Korriban, though. It's usually depicted more like space Egypt in other material, and it's not even particularly volcanic in KOTOR.

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Thanks for the information. I think earlier we had decided to mostly leave it to be pretty ambiguous (as you won't encounter any real terrain on Sleheyron) as to not upset the original intent nor anything established since then. So expect a vague description that could either be barren or volcanic.

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Unless you plan to do some geographic landscaping module, the background for a volcanic or barren wouldn't really be that different, not to mention its an entire planet. Perhaps the urban and populated area is more arable, less arid, and less volcanic; therefore, you stil wouldn't have to worry about the volcanic effects. Just my 2 cents. Also, IIRC there's a limited to the music.2da at like 51, with the default at 48 or 49, so there isn't much room to add soundtracks. 

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1 hour ago, Sithspecter said:

I think earlier we had decided to mostly leave it to be pretty ambiguous (as you won't encounter any real terrain on Sleheyron) as to not upset the original intent nor anything established since then.

Yeah, makes sense. KOTOR doesn't have the sort of engine that would let you get much out of that sort of environment anyway. Unless you were planning to have a very slow walk under the lava sea.

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I will upload a sample when I have made one. I know, JS's style is not one easily mimicked like one can do if trained properly to most classical artists or modern day musicians. If you noticed though, he did do the Bounty Hunter soundtrack as well and those themes are not that far off from KOTOR's in terms of style. So if the limit is 51, is that means there is room for 2 more pieces of music to the game?

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19 hours ago, JCarter426 said:

Yeah, makes sense. KOTOR doesn't have the sort of engine that would let you get much out of that sort of environment anyway. Unless you were planning to have a very slow walk under the lava sea.

What about using a suit similar to the Manaan underwater worker or the Leviathan Sith space suit, in a similar fashion but functioning as an external heat exposure protection suit to get to the star map walking across a lava field or inside a thermal vent? The star map portion of the quest should be unique in its own way, not sure how it was truly intended to be in the game, but winning enough arena battles = access to star map? Any designs for warring Hutt cartel type quests to progress the storyline?

I saw a mod for KOTOR, a long time ago back when filefront was still up called Undead Yavin or something like that, where they had put these giant spiders (looked professionally done) in place of the kinrath. How is the KOTOR engine for npc model space? Would be cool to have a new lava-based creature to fight or some kind of volcanic crab/flea insect like the Mustafarian creatures. Rancor's / Terentateks would take away from the experience of fighting them on the other worlds I think, but I've done skinning if anyone's up for making some new creatures.  If any of you played SWG when it released the Mustafar expansion they had dozens of new alien species to encounter that lived on the lava world which was an interesting albeit short-lived experience. The Sher Kar, which was in a deleted drafted scene for Episode III would be an interesting arena boss type fight: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sher_Kar

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Just curious will there be high level enemies in this mod?

 

High Level Enemies would be in this case is Level 15 or higher with Higher Stats, Equal to or Greater Than Feats for that Level, Equal to or Greater than Force Abilities for that Level with Superb Gear Sets and Weapons.

Like a Nightmare of an Enemy, A level 15 Dark Jedi that fights on par of a Dedicated Level 20 Jedi. 

If you consider this, Balance it out with excellent late game gear that gives players a chance to fight back.

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On 5/14/2019 at 6:09 AM, musicforthepiano said:

Any news on Sleheyron?

I am still working on it! I haven't posted much because there isn't much that's extremely pretty to show. Lately I have been overhauling the street with updates to the doorways and a few other minor improvements. Other existing areas are in progress with small improvements, and I still need to model one additional area.

Ironically, one of my major holdups this year was my mouse. My 3DSMax workflow is dependent on the center mouse button (or wheel) clicking properly. My mouse had deteriorated to where the center button wasn't clicking anymore. I procrastinated for several months before getting a new one. I have a new one now and progress is much improved.

On 5/26/2019 at 6:23 PM, DeathScepter said:

Just curious will there be high level enemies in this mod?

 

High Level Enemies would be in this case is Level 15 or higher with Higher Stats, Equal to or Greater Than Feats for that Level, Equal to or Greater than Force Abilities for that Level with Superb Gear Sets and Weapons.

Like a Nightmare of an Enemy, A level 15 Dark Jedi that fights on par of a Dedicated Level 20 Jedi. 

If you consider this, Balance it out with excellent late game gear that gives players a chance to fight back.

Haven't planned much as far as high level enemies go just yet. Will try to have some more difficult fights in there.

Once again, thanks all for continued interest in the project. I will continue to work on it and post updates when available.

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The past couple days I have been working on the arena. The original one in the game's files, m31aa_00a.mdl/mdx is a bit of a mess, and also seems to be scaled differently than the rest of the game.

Some of you may know that at one point in time during development, the environments in KotOR were scaled larger. About 33% larger than the current scale. I can't remember precisely how the change came about, but they ended up liking the smaller scale that everything ended up at.

I believe the arena is leftover from this phase of development. It seemed a little bit large during testing, so I re-created it from scratch in 75% scale of the original. The original had a few minor issues that I've adjusted as well. I think this is turning out rather nicely, and I like the new scale and lighting:

0Um1ejk.jpg

Also, I have made the floor modular to add in other obstacles or such for variations in the arena. The other two areas still included in the files have what seems to be a "maze" style arena and a "king-of-the-hill" style arena. The maze is little more than a few walls, but it breaks up the place. The "king-of-the-hill" is an elevated platform with ramps on the sides.

I am open for suggestions on how to make these different "game-modes" work. One idea for the "king-of-the-hill" arena is to have two switches on either side of the arena, either of which will knockback all PCs/NPCs off the center when triggered. On the center platform there would be a trigger that activates a counter when members of either team are on it. First team to a certain count wins.

I am thinking there will be 10-15 different matches over the course of the game, with escalating difficulty. Sort of like a Taris Dueling Ring for the entire game. It would keep the player coming back to Sleheyron and allow for higher level enemies. I also had an idea that after a certain point in the matches (maybe about halfway through the 10-15 matches), you have to side with one of two Hutts as your sponsor. This would affect which teams of gladiators you would encounter.

Another question I've been pondering, should these matches be death matches or just knock-out matches like Taris? Death matches for the entireity seem a bit macabre, and potentially darker than the lighter tone of KotOR. They are also problematic for light-siders to participate in.

But why would the Hutts restrict the matches to knockout only? Perhaps a steady supply of good fighters is hard to come by. Maybe by restricting the matches to KO only, they retain their fighters and the losers get a chance to learn and improve, leading to more competitive matches and larger betting pools. Let me know what you think!

I am open for suggestions and discussion as to how these concepts would work, and other ideas anyone may have to keep things interesting.

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Player: Why would you think I would be willing to kill others for your entertainment?

Hutt: You fight with big bad criminals jedi; slavers, assassins, female killers, maybe even one of your sith. Nobody miss them, you do galaxy big favor.

Player: I don't believe you, I can't allow myself to hurt others.

Hutt: You right jedi, but I can't allow myself to let entertainment like you slip to one of my rivals. Maybe you don't fight, and *maybe* you have accident with ship's air scrubbers.

 

Or you could have them kidnap T3 if lightsiders refuse to fight.

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On a Side Note On Death Match Rewards, Sith Marauder Gear Set would be a good rewards for Dark Sided Players and it is alright to set them with Feat Required that fits feels the Sith Marauder Gear Set.

 

It is alright to go dark if it fits your mod. Also Personal preference only, it is perfectly alright to make it a Late game planet with High Level Higher Stats Enemies of all stripes. And Good gear should balance the Harder Enemies.

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5 hours ago, Sithspecter said:

I am open for suggestions on how to make these different "game-modes" work.

For the totally open one, perhaps a series of duels. You get to choose which player on your team participates in each round, and the last team standing is the winner. I think this would be a good opportunity to make use of the SwitchPlayerCharacter() function, which is only otherwise used for the Leviathan prison break.

There can also be a variations on this, such as how many and which teams participate in a round, and how many members of each team participate (1-3) and could even be determined by a random number. There could also rules regarding who is allowed to compete in a round (like you can't send the same team member twice in a row, for variety) or what sort of weapons are allowed (so you have to be strategic with who you send).

5 hours ago, Sithspecter said:

One idea for the "king-of-the-hill" arena is to have two switches on either side of the arena, either of which will knockback all PCs/NPCs off the center when triggered. On the center platform there would be a trigger that activates a counter when members of either team are on it. First team to a certain count wins.

Hmm, would there be any conventional combat in this? I suppose some grenades and Force powers have a knockback effect, but the usual shooting/slicing does no such thing.

Maybe rather than just being knocked back, they have to hold down a switch and can't be involved in combat. And if they're attacked, they can't use the switch - or to make it simpler, you can't use the switch as long as an enemy also occupies the hill. The goal could be to hold down the switch for a certain amount of accumulated time. All the knockback stuff could still apply, of course - if they're not on the hill, they can't hold the switch.

An alternative would be to have being on the hill offer some advantage rather than being the goal. Like maybe as long as a team member occupies the hill, it gives the rest of your team shields or heals them or makes their attacks do extra damage... but the person on the hill has to stay there, giving you a numbers disadvantage as before.

A few LucasArts games had a different sort of king of the hill style too, with the hill having some object to collect that you have to hold on to for as long as possible. If I remember correctly - we're talking older than KOTOR here - this was called "Kill the Fool with the Ysalamiri" in the Jedi Knight games. You had to hold on to the ysalamiri to win, but as long as you held it, it would disable your Force powers, and of course everybody would try to kill you to take it from you. I think one of them changed the premise a bit and made the item to collect a lightsaber, so you had an advantage while you held it instead of a disadvantage. The goal could again be the duration the item is held, or maybe the amount of kills you make while holding the item.

This might be more suitable for the maze arena, as you would have to hunt down the item or whoever holds it through the maze.

5 hours ago, Sithspecter said:

Another question I've been pondering, should these matches be death matches or just knock-out matches like Taris? Death matches for the entireity seem a bit macabre, and potentially darker than the lighter tone of KotOR. They are also problematic for light-siders to participate in.

But why would the Hutts restrict the matches to knockout only? Perhaps a steady supply of good fighters is hard to come by. Maybe by restricting the matches to KO only, they retain their fighters and the losers get a chance to learn and improve, leading to more competitive matches and larger betting pools. Let me know what you think!

I think you could justify it either way. The audience might want to see bloodshed but they also want to cheer for the teams they like and see them win and death matches put a damper on that. And obviously the competitors don't want to die. Maybe it's just better business.

You could always have both options too. Maybe one of the Hutts you can choose does death matches and one doesn't.

Death matches do limit the gameplay options, though. Logically the game should be over as soon as any of your party members are killed - because they can't die for story reasons - and that's not how combat in the game usually works. And this limitation wouldn't apply to the other teams, because who cares if NPCs die. So I'd suggest limiting death matches to solo encounters, if they are to be used at all.

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My two cents about death matches in the arena: no.

Not only would the tone of the game be affected but the one death match in the game with Bendak Starkiller would lose much poignancy. There is the important matter of internal consistency to be taken in consideration, especially when adding a whole new planet to the game.

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Fantastic stuff, Sithspecter! Wow, for an arena that huuugggee I'd vote for a battle royal style. Like, there's a hostile_2 faction settings that makes a creature go hostile with anything that is in the same room as I recall. I think that'd be perfectly implemented with it! About death-match; I personally relish another underground death-match arena beside Taris' -as described by Ajuur the Hutt- and Sleheyron is the perfect place for that. Also I'm in for the idea that Sleheyron is the place to mine Dark side points. There's a conscious decision why our PC decided to go there in the first place.

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7 minutes ago, ebmar said:

Like, there's a hostile_2 faction settings that makes a creature go hostile with anything that is in the same room as I recall.

Not quite. It just means it will also attack anyone flagged as STANDARD_FACTION_HOSTILE_1 in addition to the usual friendly factions. Combatants won't attack members of their own faction. A good example is the Dark Side ending to the Sandral-Matale Feud quest, where the two sets of droids are set to HOSTILE_1 and HOSTILE_2 so that they attack each other and the player.

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The way each faction feels about the others can be adjusted dynamically via the AdjustReputation() function too. That's how the Sand People are triggered friendly or hostile depending on whether you're wearing the disguise. So I wouldn't worry about the specifics of that; any combination is possible, probably. It could probably be done by giving each team their own faction, one of the lesser-used ones like Sand People, Czerka, and Gizka, and changing the reputation levels as needed. Should be fine so long as everything returns to normal at the end of the match.

Also I totally overlooked before that you redid the arena from scratch rather than just rescaling it, so well done there.

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17 hours ago, DeathScepter said:

On a Side Note On Death Match Rewards, Sith Marauder Gear Set would be a good rewards for Dark Sided Players and it is alright to set them with Feat Required that fits feels the Sith Marauder Gear Set.

It is alright to go dark if it fits your mod. Also Personal preference only, it is perfectly alright to make it a Late game planet with High Level Higher Stats Enemies of all stripes. And Good gear should balance the Harder Enemies.

I'm not familiar with the Sith Marauder Gear, is that something that's in default KotOR or are you proposing new items?

I'm planning that Sleheyron will be visit-able pre-Leviathan so that players don't have to play through almost the entire game before being able to do Sleheyron.

16 hours ago, JCarter426 said:

For the totally open one, perhaps a series of duels. You get to choose which player on your team participates in each round, and the last team standing is the winner. I think this would be a good opportunity to make use of the SwitchPlayerCharacter() function, which is only otherwise used for the Leviathan prison break.

There can also be a variations on this, such as how many and which teams participate in a round, and how many members of each team participate (1-3) and could even be determined by a random number. There could also rules regarding who is allowed to compete in a round (like you can't send the same team member twice in a row, for variety) or what sort of weapons are allowed (so you have to be strategic with who you send).

I like the idea of a series of duels with you and your companions. That would be an interesting way of mixing things up, especially if the duels are in a series of three. I also like mixing things up with weapon restrictions. Variety seems to be a good thing here.

16 hours ago, JCarter426 said:

Hmm, would there be any conventional combat in this? I suppose some grenades and Force powers have a knockback effect, but the usual shooting/slicing does no such thing.

Maybe rather than just being knocked back, they have to hold down a switch and can't be involved in combat. And if they're attacked, they can't use the switch - or to make it simpler, you can't use the switch as long as an enemy also occupies the hill. The goal could be to hold down the switch for a certain amount of accumulated time. All the knockback stuff could still apply, of course - if they're not on the hill, they can't hold the switch.

The main combat for my proposed idea would be around the two switches with the ability to knockback the players on the "hill". However, your idea is probably better as it seems to balance things since it takes one player on the winning side out of action in order to progress. That's really a lot better of a concept.

16 hours ago, JCarter426 said:

Death matches do limit the gameplay options, though. Logically the game should be over as soon as any of your party members are killed - because they can't die for story reasons - and that's not how combat in the game usually works. And this limitation wouldn't apply to the other teams, because who cares if NPCs die. So I'd suggest limiting death matches to solo encounters, if they are to be used at all.

8 hours ago, Salk said:

My two cents about death matches in the arena: no.

Not only would the tone of the game be affected but the one death match in the game with Bendak Starkiller would lose much poignancy. There is the important matter of internal consistency to be taken in consideration, especially when adding a whole new planet to the game.

These are good points. Death matches seem like a bad idea for the entirety, and solo death matches would make the most sense with the given limitations.

I am thinking maybe the best course would be to have a sidequest of sorts where the PC can square off in two or three death matches for extreme Darkside points. It would be optional and independent of the main gladiator quest, so people can choose whether or not to take that route. I'm interested to hear more thoughts on the subject, and ways I could include one or two deathmatches without ruining things.

7 hours ago, ebmar said:

Fantastic stuff, Sithspecter! Wow, for an arena that huuugggee I'd vote for a battle royal style. 

A battle royale might be very interesting as well, especially for a qualifier round. I think a combat round in which all the weapons are in crates or something could be neat. You have to grab whatever weapons you can get and work with what you find. I am interested in thoughts further exploring this concept.

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Sith Marauder Gear Set is an example of One of many possible New Gear you can introduce for Quest Rewards. Regardless when you can make Sleheyron visit-able, As much as I love Stronger enemies of all stripes,  The Merchants should sell good gear to balance the Enemies out. In Short, it is perfectly right to make the Enemies extremely hard.   Imagine that You are fighting an Alpha Rakghoul Fiend with possible High Stats, Immunities or Insane Health Regeneration that makes Deadpool envious.  Or 1 vs Squad of Your choice for another death match. Tranodsans Hunters and Mandolarian Commandos would be nice for 1 vs Squad Matches and Each of them has an unique Fighting style that the player has to watch out for.

 

 

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Here is a screenshot now that the crowd has been added:

52kD8Co.jpg

I wasn't sure if the crowd would scale well but it has. This one is in-game, the previous one was a render, hence the loss of some of the nice lighting.

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On 6/6/2019 at 11:23 AM, Sithspecter said:

I also had an idea that after a certain point in the matches (maybe about halfway through the 10-15 matches), you have to side with one of two Hutts as your sponsor. This would affect which teams of gladiators you would encounter.

I really like this idea, and I second what JC said about possibly finding a way to tie this into the morality system. Maybe one of the Hutts is just your typical, ruthless "bloodshed brings me money" types, but the other is a bit more progressive for Hutt standards. Still a greedy bastard, but not completely beyond the line

Funny enough, that premise reminds me a bit of what Bioware later did with DA:O and Orazammar. Picking one side to represent in a dueling arena and fighting for them. Could go with something along those lines and have it affect the outcome of the planet itself

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