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#59756 TSLRP: Not Quite A Post-Mortem

Posted by InSidious on 16 October 2017 - 06:59 AM

Thanks everyone. Glad you enjoyed it.


I finally have a small amount of free time, so I'm going to be responding to a few of the points raised in this thread in sequence.



Well we did get DeNCS out of it, so it wasn't all bad.

Having been involved in an ill-fated large modding project myself (BG2R), I have some sympathy for TSLRP. I know well the pain of lots of people clamouring for a release, but nobody willing to actually help do the work. Having observed the TSLRP drama unfold fairly passively from the outside, I think their main mistake was not making public releases from an early stage. Closed beta testing is fine and a necessity, but don't go making a big song and dance publicly about something until you are willing to release it. Doing so would have done two things. It would have dampened some of the noise from the peanut gallery, and it likely would have encouraged more people to volunteer to help.


True, although as  I recall DeNCS requires a specific and long-out-of-date version of Java to run. I think JdNoa made a few other bits and pieces for TSLRP which got released separately, like DeNCS and AniCam.


Yeah, it's far from the only project to go south in this kind of way. One of the most frustrating parts of the whole saga is that there were was a small but steady stream of people over the years offering to help implement the mod, and they were all refused. Whether they actually would have stuck around, and if the project would ever have been finished that way, is probably moot, I'd guess.



I recall this epic shout out to Dashus - screen-capped from the Team Gizka forums days . . .



Pavlos' post-mortem on Team Bantha was practically read out verbatim near the end of one of the videos Xuul and I did.  There's a lot of good information in that post-mortem.


I am so looking forward for the Pikmin/Balor stuff to come out in a future chapter of the M4-78 Documentary.  That guy was a tool.  The website for K2RP still exists!  (Apparently, he never got around to removing me from the staff list after I denounced him.)


QGG's call-out stirs a distant memory. I think it's what actually provoked Dashus into telling everyone he hadn't done any modding for two months because of all that totally real sexy sex he was sexing.


Pav's post-mortem is full of good advice for people working on big projects in general, IMO.


And yeah, the Pikmin/Balor stuff will be well worth waiting for. :D





A few questions regarding the GenoHaradan:

What was the excuse for the Exile to go to Nar Shadda? Was he/she captured by the GenoHaradan before he could go to Telos and was taken to their base or does he/she just say "Let's go to Nar Shadda to defeat the GenoHaradan at their base we don't know where to find"?


How did they tackle Batu Rem? Since I've been working on Rem for some time now I know from experience that Batu only has two voiced lines about the GenoHaradan which on its own isn't enough and three more with no VO and two Atton line with no VO. Did they splice or did they redo his lines with a new actor? (Or did they use the two lines?)


How did they tackle Luxa's bounty hunters? Because the only evidence of their GenoHaradan involvement is the DLG they have for when you contact them on the terminal in that hospital is called "geno.dlg" I have no other evidence besides that to support the theory of them being GenoHaradan.

Where there any rewards for killing Desicuss the GenoHaradan leader? If not then I can happily announce there will at least 3 or maybe 4 amazing rewards for defeating Dessicus in my mod.


I apologize for hounding you with questions you probably won't remember but unless I can get my hands on the TSLRP leak to observe what they have your the closest thing I have to information regarding how they wanted to pull it off.


It's been the better part of nine years, but...


In TSLRP, the Exile received a summons like the summons to return to Onderon in the vanilla game. It came late in the game, and really screwed up the pacing.


I think they just added back in the cut lines for Atton and Batu Rem, I think after "no mere assassin...". Are you sure the VO for Atton isn't hidden somewhere odd? I'm sure the lines were voiced in the RP, but they may have grabbed those lines from the Xbox version or something.


I don't really remember Luxa's bounty hunters. Sorry. I'm not sure if they added a reference in there or not. I think possibly they added a reference to the alien VO for the two, and then altered one of the player responses in the dialogue with Luxa. But I can't really remember.


As I recall, the reward for beating Dessicus was decidedly underwhelming.


Hope that was helpful, but as I say, it's been a long time.



Was hoping for more behind-the-scenes forum drama, but it seems you never knew much more than regular forum users. Interesting read, thanks for sharing!



Hahaha I remember this, you were probably our biggest opponent back in the beginning. Good times :D



Quick clarification here, Goto was never intended to be on M4-78. I heard people mention this quite a few times, and I think the misconception comes from the fact that M4-78 and Goto's Yacht have the same puzzles, but that's not because they're connected.


The real story behind it is, Goto's Yacht was supposed to be cut out as well, until Kevin Saunders said he can design the whole area in a week. He did so by moving content he'd designed for M4-78 - which was already cut by that point - to Goto's Yacht.


No idea how Goto would fit into the GenoHaradan plot line, though.





I actually remember that, since it was so hilariously out of place. On your way to Malachor, T3 would approach you and tell you that the GenoHaradan would blow up Nar Shaddaa or something if you didn't go there and fight them.
I never really played the leak, but I know someone who probably finished it more times than any of the real beta testers :P


Yeah. What little we thought we knew was also possibly a lie. As an exercise in project management, it was a disaster.

I remember Lord of Hunger was worried I'd block the mod being uploaded to KotORFiles.


(I also wrote a horrible review of the very first version of M478, giving it a 5/10. :P ) That led to working on the various plot revisions with Sharen Thrawn before they disappeared off the map.


Re: Goto: Interesting,  thanks. I've no idea how Goto and the Genoharadan fit together either. There is a line for one of his opening scenes that goes something like: "The GenoHaradan are no concern of yours". So presumably they were meant to be part of the plot at the same time.



Thanks for the shout-out Insidious, but I don't think I was involved in any of the testing process for TSLRP


Hmm. In that case, I think it must have been Miltiades who was working out the Droid Factory stuff. Maybe I confused you with him because you worked on the RCM droid factory. Apologies.



Damn, this is a long topic already... well, time to read (yes, nothing done yet). Skimmed a few posts.
Aside from hating us, I also recall you weren't fond of my about my bug reports I made for TSLRP during it's leaked beta (only about 400 entries or so). Should have had saved that list, would have saved me a lot of time on TSLRCM. Might even still be issues in I listed there but then completely forgotten about afterwards.


Really? I've completely forgotten that. Then again, my memories of the TG forum is mainly of flame wars, and "I think this thread should be locked now" copypasted everywhere.


Anyway, a few keyparts you forgot to mention.

* You mention Dashus didn't mind the leak. This however was NOT my experience, as shortly after doing so he uploaded an "update" for the game that basically broke it down entirely. Had to re-install the entire game and TSLRP due to it (thanks Dashus). Which doesn't sound like something someone who "doesn't care" would do. Actual testers got affected too since those gamebreakers started popping up in the official Bug Tracker.


I'd forgotten that. He didn't seem particularly ruffled in the limited communication I had with him.



* You say the blame felt on 90SK, but according to posts by the RPGCodex it was all due to Darth Windu (who stayed on the team), who exchanged his TSLRP code in promise of getting laid. Of course the validity of this claim got never proven, but if it was a hoax they did type up a pretty giant detailed chatlog. One Windu claimed was partially true, but faked out in the end. Anyway, that was the drama seen on the outside.


Never knew this. Windu seemed to keep that pretty quiet in the tester's forum at the time, if my memory is right. I do remember him wanting the beta team to release the mod on the grounds that we were the last people around with a connection to the original team.



* Crap hit the fan WAY before Dashus' "screw you guys, I'm getting laid" when a new trailer was released for TSLRP. Why would a trailer cause commotion? Because it was the "release trailer" and in the end it had a release date 1 year EARLIER than the video was released at. This... fell really REALLY bad with everyone, especially after outcries of "what the hell is this?" got completely ignored or sarcastically dismissed (don't recall specifically). That was really the point where the TSLRP "team" shown the world that this was leading nowhere, Dashus "but I failed everything I ever did, I will succeed at something for once!" was just the final nail in the coffin. That it was a thinly veiled "I'm getting laid, you probably not, SUCKAHS" after withholding TSLRP, refusing to release it even when giving up and all that BS definitely made us all remember him as a giant douchebag. Thanks for DeNCS, but really... that's the legacy left behind, that's what people will remember.


Again, I'd completely forgotten this.


But yeah, the legacy of Team Gizka, apart from its indirect influence on TSLRCM, wasn't great. I think the guy who made the Atton leaning animation for TSLRP pass it on to TSLRCM, or is my memory playing tricks?



It was rumored the 90SK bragged about leaking it on another forum. It was brought to my attention then, I looked it up, and the accusation seemed legit.

I do not know the answer.


I knew I'd seen something about it. Never thought it was all that likely, myself, but it's all long past now.

#58244 TSLRP: Not Quite A Post-Mortem

Posted by InSidious on 09 August 2017 - 02:34 AM

So, Sith Holocron and someone else (I forget who, sorry) asked me to write something a while ago, about the ‘inside track’ on the TSLRP project in its last days, so here it is. This isn’t a definitive description, just my point of view on the thing. Other people may disagree, or remember things differently.


(A recent thread by N-Drew25 has reminded me that I’m a crusty prehistoric remnant in this community these days ( :P ), so for those who don’t know, TSLRP stands for The Sith Lords Restoration Project. This was the first attempt to restore the cut content in TSL, and petered out around 2008.)


First of all, I had somewhat limited involvement: I was on one of the people asked to take part in the “closed beta” of the mod in 2008-2009, along without a dozen others, and was one of those that survived the purge following the leak. Also, the mod was wound up in 2010, as I recall, so my memory is a bit fuzzy about a lot of this. With that said…


TSLRP began in about 2005. Very soon after the game had been released, people began discovering cut content, and forum threads on the Obsidian boards from as early as late 2004 have people beginning to make lists and quote cut dialogue. A user called AuroraJenkins got involved, and sometime in early-mid 2005, TSLRP was born.


It’s worth pointing out at this stage, that almost from the beginning, there were naysayers. Not just people who thought it was impossible, but also people, at least from early 2006, suggesting the project was vapourware, would never come out, or was pointless because the game was too old to be worth bothering with (stop laughing manically at the back there…).


I think I first became aware of TSLRP sometime midway through 2005. I had joined LucasForums (which was the hub for KotOR modding until the last couple of years, when it went down) in February 2005. Of course, in those days, the style was to wear an onion on your belt, and I needed to take the steamer over to…


My memory of all this is quite fuzzy, so I’m probably skipping quite a lot of material, but in essence, there were 6-7 members on the team, plus a small number of people beta-ing elements as they were put in place. Dashus, I think, was originally some sort of webmaster and coordinator (?), but ended up with a role in the project as well, co-ordinating the internal beta team (i.e., not me and the others like me [in theory], but the people who were testing stuff as it was implemented). Among the internal beta team (most of whom I don’t now recall), was Pavlos, who will enter our narrative in a few paragraphs’ time, and then leave again shortly afterwards.


For some reason, the exact cause of which I never did work out, back in 2005 the TSLRP team and the LF moderating team managed to rub one another up the wrong way, so that although there was a TSLRP thread which was updated for a while (more, perhaps, on that later), the TSLRP team decided to found a website.

This attracted a small but steady stream of visitors, including a fair, and, as time went on, increasing number of people who came pretty much to demand the project be released immediately as is, to accuse the project of being vapourware, or to ask when it was going to come out in good faith. The three categories started to merge into one sometime in 2007-8, at a guess.

There were also occasional (and sometimes persistent, repeated) offers of help to the team, to make things go quicker. These were generally rebuffed, on the grounds of too many cooks. This will become important later.


The TSLRP was not going to restore all unrestored content; some of it, they felt, didn’t really go together, there were bits that came from old versions of the game (there’s half an alternative lightsabre form system buried in the game code, for instance – but, importantly, only half; other examples are the ‘Nihilus vs Sion’ scene, of which at least three reconstructions exist and are on YouTube, and the character of Dvakhvar Grahrk (sp?), who was cut really early on in development), or stuff from which too little survived to really implement it. One key example of this was M478, the Droid Planet. (Alert readers will have recognised that TSLRCM also doesn’t ‘restore’ this, for the same reason.)


The M4-78 area geometry was in the game files of both games, but in the early days of KotOR modding, nobody had gone looking for them particularly, as far as I know. If they did, they don’t appear to have tried creating new game files to make those areas accessible. (So far as I know, the first person to try that was me.) But, the modules files for the Droid Planet areas were included in the Xbox version of the game, and these were made available for modding fairly early on. I’d guess c. early 2005, maybe?


There were, of course, repeated pleas for a restoration of this, which the TSLRP team repeatedly refused to do. So a new restoration team was born, based on the idea of restoring M4-78. At this point, things on the TSLRP website were still fairly relaxed and friendly, and a fairly sane, open moderating regime operated. Nonsense was got rid of quickly, but the atmosphere was generally positive.

(Sidenote: At that time there was a user on the TSLRP forums who went by Jedi Holocron. Then in about 2006, a new guy showed up calling himself Sith Holocron, as a kind of complement. He hasn’t changed usernames since, but I’m not in a position to criticise his lack of originality. :P )


So, the new team were given their own forum on the TSLRP website, and the two teams were friendly. A joke started about there being two ‘teams’, so the M4-78 team named themselves Team Bantha, and the TSLRP team called themselves Team Gizka. Team Bantha caused a certain amount of excitement, but, in all fairness, it has to be said they produced a big heap of nothing. By early 2007, the project had, unbeknownst to most outsiders, stalled completely. So, Pavlos posted a post-mortem at the Obsidian Forums, and LucasForums. The Obsidian one is here: http://forums.obsidi...rp-post-mortem/ and provides some good advice on running a mod project. At this point, Pavlos exits our narrative again.


(Side-note: Throughout all of this, a user called variously Darth Balor or Pikmin, or a host of other names, released various short-lived “restorations” which relied on stealing the work of other modders. They were generally crushed, only to reappear under a new team name, with a new username for the leader of the project. Actually, “modding teams” became a thing in 2007-8, with various KotOR beasts chosen for names. I’ve forgotten almost all of them, since 99% produced nothing but hot air. Pro-tip: Worry less about branding, team names, and portentous lists of everyone’s titles, and the % done on various subheadings, and more on actually producing a mod. Among these was Team Jawa, the original K1RP project team. You can read about part of that here: http://deadlystream....ngs/#entry25287 )


Now, if nothing much had been visibly happening with Team Bantha, there wasn’t much more on show for Team Gizka (the TSLRP project), either. So people were getting more impatient for the mod. So they vented on the TSLRP forums. So the mods clamped down, and the regulars started to get a bit… defensive.


Sometime around the end of 2007 – beginning of 2008, a small group of regulars at the TSLRP/Team Gizka forums were asked by Dashus if we would join the final beta of the mod before release. Our job was to find bugs, report them, and post updates to the forum about our playthroughs. I forget who the original list consisted of, though most of the names would mean very little to people now. I do remember VarsityPuppet of this parish was one of us, alongside Qui-Gon Glenn, 90SK, Darth Windu, Miltiades, and… other people. They presumably had usernames and identities. At the same time, a bug-tracker linked to the TSLRP content system went live on the website.


This had the effect of boosting the mod’s notoriety, increasing impatience, and giving an idea that the mod would be done ‘soon’, according to every individual’s personal notion of ‘soon’. It also meant that every time the number of major bugs got low, people started to assume the mod was about to come out. And then the number went up again, and they got frustrated.

At some point between 2006 and 2008, and I’m not sure when, the mod had been moved to the server space of a project supporter who went by the username killerbob, who became forum admin. I’m going to be blunt: I blame killerbob and her two moderators for the absolutely foul atmosphere on the forum in the last year or so of the project. The megafans became like insane cultists, the “vapourware” crowd became more intense, and the whole thing deteriorated. Flame wars broke out frequently over more or less any topic, stupid arguments got advanced by all sides, and the moderators, crucially, allowed a certain number of idiots to get away with backseat moderating. If you want to know why this practice usually annoys moderators on most forums, imagine a bunch of people who go around posting “This is off-topic. I think this thread needs locking” on more or less any new thread posted. By the end, the forum was a festering pit, and a perfect example of how not to moderate. I will say that I doubt I helped with that atmosphere much, and I do remember contributing… aggressively to certain threads, but still. Bad, heavy-handed moderation made the situation a lot worse. As a result, much of my memory of the period is how awful the forum was. As anyone who can remember that period can attest.


By this time, almost all communication anyone had was with Dashus. It became apparent, over the year between 2008 and 2009, that he was the last member of Team Gizka actually working on the mod. It’s important to note that those of us on the beta were being constantly assured, when we got hold of Dashus, that he was working on the mod, fixes were being implement. In 2008, this was mostly true, as I recall. (Communication, for those who want to know, was via a hidden section of the forums, and an IRC chat. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say….)


I can’t say I was very active as a beta-tester. It was boring, required the game to be otherwise unmodded, and sucked all the fun out of playing and modding the game. In fact, I’m not sure I ever reported a single verifiable bug. This was more laborious than it might sound, since it required the beta tester to upload a savegame along with a detailed description of the bug in question. Which is a pretty good disincentive, but there you go. Other people were much more active in reporting bugs.


Partway through this process, in which a lot of people were increasingly angrily awaiting the mod, someone gave someone else access to a version of the beta. I think it was version 1.0b8. I forget where we started with the final beta. I think it was 1.0b5 or 1.0b6. This then went up on a torrent site. I think it was ThePirateBay.


Up to this point at least, progress was being made. New beta versions were being released to us, to test after each major round of bugfixing. The leak didn’t exactly change that, but…

The atmosphere in some ways didn’t change. Dashus acted as if nothing had changed, but also fired some of the beta-testers, based on a not-too-clear reasoning about who was responsible. Also, the download system for the beta changed to be more secure. I think 90SK ended up getting the blame, though I couldn’t say for sure, or why. Qui-Gon Glenn also ended up frozen out, though whether because of the change to the protocols for downloading the beta, or from being cut out of the beta formally, I’m not sure. At this point, communication with Dashus became much more difficult.


In theory, we were still making progress, though. People played the leaked beta, could see it wasn’t vapourware, and although there were issues with it, some people seemed happy enough with it. The calls to just release what was done increased, if anything. Dashus became increasingly difficult to get hold of. As part of the beta, each beta was numbered. The idea was that the numbering system would go up to 1.0b12 as the final beta, and then 1.0c1 would be the release version. We actually reached 1.0b11, but whether we were actually all that close to release, I don’t know. When beta-testers could get hold of Dashus, his message was that everything was fine, we were on course, the mod would be released when it was done, yes, he was working on it. It really can’t be emphasised enough that although we were beta-testing the mod, we had no more idea about what was actually being done at any minute than anyone on the outside who could watch the bug-counter. Any time we asked about the leaked beta, Dashus brushed it off, and offers of help were generally rebuffed.


Some time in mid-to-late 2009, I think, it became clear that actually not all the content was completed, when a detailed, though constructive, conversation took place in the beta’s hidden forum on what the HK Factory should look like. This came after a lengthy absence by Dashus, during which I at least had gone around telling people not to worry, he was working on the mod. Which, as far as I knew, was true.

I forget the exact sequence of events now. But some time previous to this, zbyl2 and Darth Stoney had released a restoration of Dantooine, I think. And at some point around this time, they released the first complete version of TSLRCM. My own (over)reaction was one of great hostility, which I’m going to gloss over. So far as I know, the forum posts from back then no longer exist…. >_>


Dashus had gone to ground again, but I was still insisting TSLRP was being worked on, and we would definitely be moving forward. And then Dashus made a new thread on the TSLRP forum. In it, he said he hadn’t done any work on the mod in two months (something he didn’t share with the beta-testers at any point), because he’d been too busy in real life with his girlfriend. Nevertheless, he told everyone, the mod would definitely be coming out at some point, when he felt like finishing it up. It was at this point, I think, that everyone gave up. Certainly, I did.


The forum was closed shortly afterwards, and the website eventually went, too. For a while, there was some discussion among the former beta team over what to do with the final beta we had been given. There was some discussion of releasing it ourselves, but as it was still a beta and we hadn’t actually produced any of it, this didn’t seem like a viable option, and we didn’t. Some former members of the TSLRP team who had moved on popped up and individually gave their original contributions (such as the animation for Atton’s leaning pose at the end of the game, in some endings) to TSLRCM.


It’s difficult now to remember how TSLRP differed from TSLRCM. My main memory is that everything seemed a lot smoother than the first version of the RCM I played, when I eventually swapped over (since I still had TSLRP 1.0b11, I carried on using it for a while). Less content was restored in it overall, probably, but much of what wasn’t was stuff that was quite small, and didn’t fit. The voice acting for Kaevee was awful. Really awful. The other bit which was pretty bad was the GenoHaradan restoration. Although it was implemented competently enough on the whole, the way it was done entailed dragging the player back to Nar Shaddaa between the final confrontations on Dantooine and Telos, for a single, relatively short boss sequence.  The result felt arbitrary, out of place, and needlessly lengthened the already lengthy end-game. This was also probably the most heavily reconstructed restoration.


So far as I can see, the GenoHaradan actually belong to a version of the Nar Shaddaa plot from before G0T0 was moved there (or invented?) after the Droid Planet was cut. Originally, the player would have confronted the GenoHaradan under the Jekk’Jekk Tarr. Their boss, when defeated, would have detonated a huge bomb, destroying the docks sector of the city, and the player would have been rescued by Zez-Kai Ell, who would have whisked the Exile back to the Refugee Landing Pad just in the nick of time. Somewhere in all of this, Sion would have left Malachor V for Nar Shaddaa to kill you, but probably arrive just in time to see the explosion, and assume the Exile was dead. The Exile would have lain unconscious, listening to the thoughts of the crewmates on the Ebon Hawk. Sion would have visited Nihilus and told him the Exile was dead (one restoration of that scene can be viewed here: https://www.youtube....h?v=9y3wCJ0TLEY ). Where the chat with Zez-Kai Ell fits into this, I don’t know. This appears to have been the rough outline of the planet originally, as far as I have been able to piece together, and can remember. When they cut the Droid Planet, Obsidian moved G0T0/invented him, and put his yacht as the centre of criminal activity on Nar Shaddaa, and got rid of the GenoHaradan. This left a slightly unsatisfactory situation with Batu Rem on Telos, but that was about it.


Lessons to learn from the TSLRP? Don’t run a project with only one person doing the work; make sure you moderation team are competent; don’t whip up expectations you can’t control, and don’t set yourself up as somehow a superior breed of modder, whose work is more “professional” than the rest, if you can’t deliver the goods. Or maybe the lesson is not to ask me to get involved in your mod project, since they tend to fail with me on board. >_>


I’ve no idea if this is what SH had in mind for a post-mortem on TSLRP, but there you go. It’s most of what I can remember, or want to remember, of the affair. Maybe other people can respond with their own memories of the project.

#49860 Download:[TSL] Lost Modules Pack

Posted by InSidious on 05 November 2016 - 07:15 PM

File Name: [TSL] Lost Modules Pack

File Submitter: InSidious

File Submitted: 05 Nov 2016

File Category: Modder's Resources

Not really a mod, more of a modding resource. Here I've gathered the 7 most useful
'lost' modules for KotOR 1 - that is, modules that had no .rim files, and were essentially
just room models in the game files. Why do I say 'most useful'? There are a few more -
one of which is a slice of corridor, and several bits of the Unknown World temple-top,
but none of these are much different or much more useful than the already existing modules,
or the ones I have packaged here. Neither are they particularly exemplary.


And so, here they are. I would guess that the modules' functions would be:


In 2006-7, I found a variety of 'lost' modules in KotOR I, which I released as a pack.
This consisted mainly of areas for which area models, walkmesh and lightmaps existed
in the game files, but no module file. I complied these for use.


Shortly aftewards I found around three others for TSL, which I intended to release
around the time of my release of another mod of mine. The mod got delayed, and I
forgot about the lost modules for a long time, until reminded by VarsityPuppet.


Unlike the KotOR I set, these don't appear to have been made for areas which were
then unused, but were probably for test effects, or similar purposes. They are:


000test - Empty, box-shaped room. The camera clips through the walls, like it
does in most custom modules.


000trl - Small, empty area with a foggy floor. Perhaps has something to do with
the main menu, when completed by a character with the Sith Lord prestige


999dia - Very large, flat plane, with walkmesh and lighting. Perhaps a test?


Usage and credit
I make no claim over usage - you may create and upload your own versions of this mod
however and wherever you like - but please credit me appropriately.


Please also do not upload or claim credit for an unmodified version of this mod elsewhere.
It's just rude.

Click here to download this file

#49680 Darth InSidious' WIP

Posted by InSidious on 01 November 2016 - 04:50 AM

So, my WIP thread on LF died a death... as did LF. So here is my new WIP thread, featuring... the same old stuff I posted before, to be honest.


1. [K1] Tatooine Arena

Attached File  skrfia.jpg   585.66KB   0 downloadsAttached File  screenshot2.jpg   413.07KB   0 downloadsAttached File  tatarena4.jpg   369.57KB   0 downloadsAttached File  tatarena5.jpg   638.94KB   0 downloadsAttached File  tatarena6.jpg   651.66KB   0 downloadsAttached File  tatarena7.jpg   448.03KB   0 downloadsAttached File  tatarena8.jpg   446.32KB   0 downloads


So far as I remember, loss condition scripts are done. I just need to get the victory conditions done, write dialogue, install a merchant, and add a way to get to the arena on Tatooine.


2. Rhen Var

Attached File  rvnew1.jpg   544.39KB   0 downloadsAttached File  jargon.jpg   398.98KB   0 downloadsAttached File  som1.jpg   41.42KB   0 downloadsAttached File  call.jpg   66.14KB   0 downloadsAttached File  rv2.jpg   400.94KB   0 downloadsAttached File  rv3.jpg   526.41KB   0 downloadsAttached File  secoff.jpg   173.53KB   0 downloads


BITE OFF THE BONE, SUCK THE MARROW! Ahem. I mean. I've uploaded the 2006 trailer for Rhen Var to YouTube:


Well. The mod is a bit different these days. More recent work has included updating the galaxy map icon to something that stands up (ish):

Attached File  Gal Map v3.jpg   473.42KB   1 downloads


And also getting 'frosty breath' into completed exterior area:

Attached File  rv2.jpg   620.67KB   2 downloads


And something I forgot to add last time,  the datapad you can get on the history of the planet:

Attached File  rvhist.jpg   559.43KB   3 downloads


And also producing new textures for the main part of the interior of the base, as well as implementing some of the less central plot features:

Attached File  922_2_1.jpg   605.34KB   1 downloadsAttached File  922_2_2.jpg   572.63KB   0 downloadsAttached File  922_2_3.jpg   669.76KB   0 downloadsAttached File  922_2_4.jpg   583.51KB   1 downloadsAttached File  922_2_5.jpg   455.09KB   0 downloadsAttached File  922_2_6.jpg   482.24KB   1 downloadsAttached File  922_2_7.jpg   461.73KB   1 downloadsAttached File  922_2_8.jpg   445.61KB   0 downloadsAttached File  922_2_9.jpg   484.19KB   2 downloadsAttached File  922_11.jpg   433.6KB   0 downloadsAttached File  922_upl2.jpg   344.47KB   2 downloadsAttached File  922tex1.jpg   465.42KB   0 downloads


Or at least, I was until KotOR Tool's map editor finally refused to keep working. We'll see when I get back to it. I've also been writing some dialogue for one of the next modules on the list:

Attached File  925dlg.jpg   57.64KB   2 downloads


And doing less exciting stuff like consolidating files and harmonising filenames. That may not seem like much progress for two or three years' of modding, and it isn't. I've been busy IRL, and modding has had to take a back seat.


3.Other KotOR Modding

Aside from things I've actually released lately, I've done one or two other pieces of modding as well, such as trying out my new KotOR II textures in KotOR I:

Attached File  esrv.jpg   676.04KB   1 downloadsAttached File  esrv1.jpg   723.51KB   1 downloadsAttached File  esrv2.jpg   746.51KB   0 downloadsAttached File  esrv3.jpg   701.36KB   1 downloadsAttached File  esrv4.jpg   724.49KB   0 downloadsAttached File  esrv5.jpg   790.21KB   0 downloadsAttached File  esrv6.jpg   757.56KB   0 downloadsAttached File  esrv7.jpg   661.72KB   0 downloadsAttached File  esrv8.jpg   728.25KB   1 downloadsAttached File  esrv9.jpg   716.78KB   0 downloadsAttached File  esrv10.jpg   686.86KB   0 downloads


Another project I've been on-and-off working on is attempting to make some new masks for KotOR/KotOR II, in the style of Mass Effect:

Attached File  headgear1.jpg   118.16KB   0 downloads


To be honest, I didn't get very far with this, because I couldn't get them to sit right on all of the head models.


I've released one of the lightsaber models I was working on, and the other I still need to re-export and hope the UV-mapping holds:

Attached File  ls102.jpg   125.3KB   0 downloads


And finally, have a little M4-78 Machinima. This was originally done on request for a project, but wasn't used in the end:


I don't know when I'll next update this thread, but until then...

#49337 What Planet/Area Would You Like to See in KOTOR/TSL?

Posted by InSidious on 21 October 2016 - 05:42 PM

I'd like to see an orange planet full of orange people who speak in a stilted way using a really limited vocabulary, while making the same two hand gestures. I feel this would be a useful really just tremendous piece of social satire, and would make KotOR great again.

#49319 How to Reskin a Module

Posted by InSidious on 20 October 2016 - 01:45 PM

N.B.: This module was written in 2006, and has not been edited or updated. The GFF editor mentioned no longer exists, and it is strongly recommended you use K-GFF instead.


Everything You Never Wanted To Know About Module Reskinning And Have Been Forced To Find Out

By Darth InSidious

EDIT: Downloadable copy attached. Attached File  MODULE RESKINNING TUT.rtf   28.01KB   2 downloads

I. Tools Required

1. KotOR Tool – essential for all KotOR modding.
2. GFF Editor OR K-GFF – to edit the module files. (Note that for this tutorial I shall be using a standard Bioware GFF Editor; however, if you wish to use cameras in your mod, you may wish to use tk102’s K-GFF, as the standard GFF editor will screw them up.)
3. Picture editor – PSP, Photoshop, the Gimp or something else. For this tutorial, I shall be using the Gimp, v2.0.
4. HEX Editor – For this tutorial, I shall be using xvi_32 by Christian Maas.
5. stoffe -mkb-‘s ErfEdit v02a8.
6. A legal copy of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic for PC
7. Notepad or a similar basic text editor.
8. One human(oid) brain, still encased in body, preferably living.

I.I – Skills Required

-Some understanding of KotOR Tool.
-Some understanding of module/GFF Editing and the files involved.
-Some understanding of skinning.
-Some knowledge of HEX Editing.

II. Introduction

Ever wanted your new module to be a little less same-y? Ever wanted to re-skin a module for your mod, but keep the original looking the same? Well, now you can!

This is an area which has been somehwat overlooked in the past, I feel, partly because it hasn't been in much demand. However, now such demand is increasing, and there aren't that many people who know exactly what to do. So I present to you a tutorial on this subject smilie.gif

Note that while I've gone into sometimes rather too-great detail for most people, this is NOT an all-singing, all-dancing tutorial. This tutorial does not cover reskinning, HEX-Editing, using KotOR Tool, or module editing.

It DOES cover module reskinning, and what to do to make that reskin apply only to your new module.l

III: Preparations, And Extracting Files

III.I – Preliminary Groundwork
To start with, I recommend creating a new folder. Call it anything you like – as an example, ‘New Module Project’. It’s best to choose something clear, so you can remember what’s in this folder later on.

Open the folder, and create a new folder inside it. I would call this one ‘Module’, for clarity.

III.II – Module File Extraction
Now, open up KotOR Tool, and select ‘KotOR I’.

Go to RIMs-->Modules, and select the name of your chosen module – for this tutorial, kas_m23ab.rim . Extract both kas_m23ab.rim and kas_m23ab_s.rim into the folder ‘Module’ that you created in your ‘New Module Project’.

III.III – Lightmaps, Layouts And Visibility
Close the RIMs-->Modules tree, and open BIFs.

Take a deep breath. Yes, there are a lot of options, but don’t panic!

Click on layouts.bif, and select ‘Layouts’, then scroll down until you find m23ab.lyt .

Click ‘Extract file’, and save it to the ‘New Module Project’ folder.

Now, close layouts.bif and open lightmaps7.bif and scroll down until you find the files which have names beginning ‘m23ab’ – these are the lightmaps for our module. Extract all of the files beginning ‘m23ab’, from m23ab_01a_lm0 to m23ab_01a_lm6 to the ‘New Module Project’ folder.

Now, close the TGA Images tab, and open the Extra Texture Info tab.

Again, scroll down until you reach m23ab_01a_lm0, and extract all seven files, from m23ab_01a_lm0.txi to m23ab_01a_lm6.txi, and then close the tab.

Now, open the vis tab, and select and extract m23ab.vis.

Now close lightmaps7.bif .

III.IV – Textures And Models And Walkmesh, Oh My!

This next bit is a little more complex, so follow these instructions carefully.

Open models.bif-->Aurora Model, and scroll down until you find m23ab_01a.mdl .

Double-click on m23ab.mdl, so that the Model Extraction Options box comes up.

Change the export path to your ‘New Module Project’ folder, and click OK.

(Note: Ensure that the ‘number of consecutive models to extract’ box is set to 1.).

When the notification that the extraction is complete comes up, click ‘OK’, and open the folder, and delete the file named m23ab_01a-ascii.mdl.

Now, in KotOR Tool, highlight m23ab_01a.mdl again, and click the ‘Extract File’ button. Extract it to your ‘New Module Project’ folder, and close the Aurora Model tab.

Open the Aurora Model Extension tab, and scroll down until you find the file named m23ab_01a.mdx . This file you should extract to the ‘New Module Project’ folder, and then close the Aurora Model Extension tab.

Lastly, open the Walkmesh tab, and scroll down until you find a file named m23ab_01a.wok . Extract this file to the ‘New Module Project’ folder, and close BIFs.

Congratulations! You have now extracted everything that is used by the game in creating this module.

IV. – Reskinning and Lightmapping.

Now, using KotOR Tool, open ERFs, and select TexturePacks. For this mod, we will use Texture Pack A, so select swpc_tex_tpa.erf . Open the subtree marked ‘L’, and scroll down to the files marked LSI.

Extract the following files and their TXI files (Note: To extract the TXI files, check the box marked ‘Export Selection to TXI file’, and highlight everything in the white text box):


All these will extract as .tga files.

Close KotOR Tool.

Now, open in the GIMP lka_bark01.tga and LSI_wall11.tga . You will probably notice that lka_bark01 is much bigger than LSI_wall11. This doesn’t matter. Copy LSI_wall11, and past it on top of lka_bark01. You will probably have to past it several times to make it cover the entire texture, but never mind. Once you’re done, save it, and close both files.

Now, reskin the rest of the files named ‘lka’, (Note: Some editing of the changed textures may be required- do so at your own discretion wink_.gif ) and save them.

Delete all the files beginning ‘LSI’, and rename the ‘lka’ files to begin ‘lz1’, or some similarly unique identifier. Do not change the rest of the filename – only the first three letters.

Now, open the file named m23ab_01a_lm0.tga with the GIMP. This file is a lightmap, a type of file we know very little about. I do not recommend anything more than very basic editing of the type I will show you now.

Go to Layer-->Colours-->Hue-Saturation.

Move the slider next to the word ‘Hue’ all the way to one end. You will see the colours on the image change with it. Now, move the ‘lightness’ slider until the number next to it reads as ’30’. Finally, move the ‘Saturation’ slider back until the number next to it reads ‘-30’. Save and close the file, and repeat this process for the other lightmap (m23ab_01a_lm0-m23ab_01a_lm6) files.

Close the GIMP, and rename the lightmap files so that the name is changed from ‘m23ab’ to ‘m65aa’, or some similarly unique identifier.

While you’re at it, open the .lyt file with notepad, and change any references to ‘m23ab’ to ‘m65aa’. Close it, and then rename the file to ‘m65aa.lyt’. Do exactly the same with the .vis file. Also, rename the WOK file to m65aa.wok .

Optional: Creating A Mini-Map

It won’t crash your game if you don’t include one, but it is a useful thing to add in, and is a nice touch to add in wink_.gif

Open up KotOR Tool, and open ERFs. Select swpc_tex_gui.erf , and scroll down to ‘L’. Open ‘L’, and scroll down again until you find a file named lbl_mapm23ab.tpc. Double-click it so that the image viewer window comes up, and click ‘write file’. Select to write it to your ‘New Module Project’ folder, and save it as lbl_mapm65aa.tga .

Close KotOR Tool, and open the new file in the GIMP. Using the Hue-Saturation tool, change the Hue to -180, and the Saturation to -50. Now, paint over the now-orange bar where the door is in the module in blue, with the paintbrush set to Normal, and the Opacity at 100%. I recommend a 3 pixel fuzzy tip.

Save and close the file, close the GIMP, and place the file in your override. Et Voila, one mini-map.

V. HEX-Editing And The Model Files

These things having been completed, open up your model file (m23ab.mdl) with your HEX Editor. You should be familiar with this device if you have ever done much work with lightsabre models.

On one side, you will see box after box of numbers. Ignore this. On the other, there will be what appears to be a random selection of characters, as well as (hopefully) ‘m23ab_01a’ without the quotes. You need to ensure that this side is selected, and so shows up in white.

Now, from the top menu bar, click ‘Search’, and then ‘Find’. Set it to search down, and search for a text string. Then, in the box provided for the search term, type ‘23ab’. Now click OK.

It will now highlight the ‘2’ of that first instance of ‘m23ab’. Now, type ‘65aa’. You will see the ‘23ab’ change to ‘65aa’. Now press ‘F3’ to find the next instance, and do the same thing to it. Keep doing this, until a box comes up saying ‘string not found’.

Now scroll back up to the top of the file. Open the ‘Find’ box again, and now change the search term from ‘23ab’ to ‘lka’. Now, replace all the instances of ‘lka’ with ‘lz1’. When this is done, save the file, and close the HEX Editor.

Now, rename the file to ‘m65aa_01a.mdl’. Also rename the .mdx file to ‘m65aa_01a.mdx’.

You have now created a completely new module, complete with textures, lightmaps, walkmesh etc.

Now all you have to do is implement it.

VI. Module File Editing.

Now, open the folder named ‘Module’, and open the file named ‘m23ab.are’ with your GFF Editor or K-GFF.

Scroll down until you find a CExoLocString marked ‘Name’. Set the STRREF to -1 and the Language to whichever language this mod is for (0 is English, and I believe that the others are listed in Darth333’s Recruitable Character tutorial). Type in a name – say, for example ‘Sith Military Hut’. This is what will show up above the map in-game, if you choose to create one.

Next, scroll down to ‘Rooms’, and open the sub-tab. Change the CExoString marked ‘Name’ from m23ab_01a to m65aa_01a. Finally change the ‘Tag’ entry to ‘m65aa’ without the quotes.

Now save and close the .are file, and rename it to m65aa.are .

Next, open the file named ‘module.ifo’. Find the List marked Mod_Area_List, and opening the struct within, change the Area_Name CResRef to m65aa. Find the CResRef called Mod_Entry_Area, and change its value to m65aa.

Now find the CExoLocString marked ‘Mod_Name’ and change the value in this to ‘m65aa’. Now save and close the file. Do NOT rename it.

Now, rename m23ab.git and m23ab.pth to m65aa.git and m65aa.pth respectively.

Now, open ErfEdit, and go to File-->New. Save the file as ‘m65aa’, and ensure the file type you have chosen is .mod .

Click the button with an open folder and a text file coming out of it, and select to open resources from the ‘New Module Project\Module’ folder. Select *all* the files inside, and click ‘Open’. Now, go to File-->Save. Now close ErfEdit.

Finally, copy m65aa.mod to your SWKotOR\modules\ folder, and take the files from the New Module Project folder (but NOT the ‘Module’ folder), and put them in your SWKotOR\Override\ folder. Now load the game, and type ‘warp m65aa’ into the console without quotes, and hit enter. This should take you to your new module.

So there you have it – you have now created your very own custom module file! Congratulations, and good luck smilie.gif

And the finished product should look something like:


#48344 What was your first KotOR/TSL mod?

Posted by InSidious on 22 August 2016 - 12:33 AM

You don't know what you've started here, SithSpecter....


My first mod was released on PCGameMods on June 7, 2005, when woolly mammoths stalked the earth, small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri, all this was fields, and you young people don't know you're bo- sorry, where was I?


The mod was called Recruit Darth InSidious v1.1b. It was version 1.1b, because I'd needed a lot of help from Darth333 to make the damn thing work, since I'd more or less just directly copied the source code for Recruit RedHawke, down to the filenames. >_<


There are no screenshots, because, having been released in the Dark Ages Before Time Itself, and more to the point, before I had broadband, I never made any - partly because there were no new textures. (I can't take one at the moment because KotOR I and Windows 10 don't like each other very much).


Testing it earlier, the scripting is OK, minus a couple of idiotic bugs (somehow the text in the dialogue that fires the spawn script has vanished, and the recruitable NPC has no clothes). You can, however, choose which party member to replace, and there's a comparatively large* amount of truly terrible dialogue. Herebelow is a sample of said truly terrible dialogue:


Darth InSidious (for it is he): My ship was damaged badly due to some misplaced hyperspace co-ordinates. We flew into an asteroid, and I was forced to take an escape pod down here.



1. You have no ship, but surely there are others who can take you where you wish?

2. Why are you standing half-naked in the corridor?

3. You're lying!


Darth InSidious: Because my clothing and armours are hidden, to prevent thieves from taking them.....



Oh. Okay then....


Darth InSidious: Good....good....I shall collect my luggage and go to your ship. I sense, however, that someone must leave you ship for a time, for there are many on board......


And so on. In 2006, I still had designs on revisiting the mod, something I'm now very glad I didn't. Fortunately, I can't remember much about the development process, though I seem to recall having to hand-grind the eye of newt.



*Comparatively large amount, compared to most recruit mods then, and, come to think of it, now.  But not compared to, say, Recruitable Kay, or, say, Ralph Roister Doister.




My first KOTOR mod was this thing called TSLRCM, albeit to be fair some other people worked on it too.
It was HORRIBLE ;)


Pshaw, you say worked. You were, what, the beta-tester? :P


Anyway, I seem to recall both of us being involved in a series of betas for another mod, long ago... was it by Team Brith? Team Kataarn? Anyway, I'm sure it's definitely coming out any day now. The mod's developer assured us he would definitely get it finished in between having MEGA SEXY SEX with his SUPER HOT GIRLFRIEND WHO IS DEFINITELY REAL OKAY.

  • LDR likes this

#44879 Gamefront closing down on April 30

Posted by InSidious on 15 April 2016 - 08:59 AM

Lone Bullet has many of the KotORFiles mods:




Only K1 mods it seems.

That website did not ask permission, almost never cites the correct authors, and doesn't respond to contact attempts.

#44099 Kotor Apeiron

Posted by InSidious on 15 March 2016 - 03:01 AM

You know, there are these people, great people, fantastic people, and they made KotOR, and it was a great thing, a beautiful thing. But now we have people and they - you know, I mean, come on. I'm an informed guy, I keep informed. I'm informed. I'm informed about stuff. I know stuff. I have the best stuff. But we have these people, and they go around, and whenever - you know, I tried to make a new KotOR, and you know what these guys, they went around saying, "Oh, InSidious, he's so arrogant, he thinks he's as good as Bioware" - I mean, come on, gimme a break. But now, these folks at Apeirion, and they're great folks by the way, lovely folks, just the best folks, they're making KotOR again, and they're gonna make KotOR great again. Because right now, KotOR isn't so great, you know. It's old. It's out of date. It's losing out to newer games, mostly from China. And so that's why we've got to make KotOR great again. And that's what the folks at Aperion, just the best folks, that's what they're doing, they're making KotOR great again.

#43882 KOTOR Remake : "Apeiron"

Posted by InSidious on 09 March 2016 - 12:30 AM

Featuring companions such as Ayn Ment, Mari, Brian, and the ever-so-homicidal PE-90.

No, no, Ayn Rand, Mary, Brian and AK-47.

#43869 KOTOR Remake : "Apeiron"

Posted by InSidious on 08 March 2016 - 08:55 PM

... Featuring such iconic Planet Battles locales as Prague II, Space Fortress, Archon IV, Bar Kochba, Dachsund, Oberon,  Diazepam, Moribund, the robot planet GNVQ, and the mysterious Melchior V...

#43845 KOTOR Remake : "Apeiron"

Posted by InSidious on 08 March 2016 - 12:43 PM

You mean, The Evil Rulers Restored Content Mod?

#38435 In your opinion: Coruscant Expansion Discussion

Posted by InSidious on 01 October 2015 - 06:46 PM

after getting permission


This is the nub of the matter, IMO. Doing your own Coruscant mod is one thing, but if it were someone publically discussing making alterations/expansions to one of my mods, without having spoken to me first, I would be quite annoyed.


Perhaps I'm excessively concerned with these things.

  • LDR likes this

#36031 Why it's not okay to upload someone else's mods

Posted by InSidious on 02 August 2015 - 10:12 PM

Does anybody know any way to contact Shem, assuming he's still active? He might want to know that people have been uploading his mods to the Workshop without his permission.

I've already let him know. He's fine with it provided he's credited properly as author. If you want to contact him about anything else though, you can reach him via pm at lucasforums.

#36026 Why it's not okay to upload someone else's mods

Posted by InSidious on 02 August 2015 - 09:32 PM

​Look whose Twitter feed we made it into!

Well, I for one am heartbroken. I'm going to go and bathe my temples in eau de cologne. It's all so overwhelming...