While the old school fans won't want to watch Star Wars in cinema wouldn't all the new generation of fans still watch them, you know the little kids who can't see how poor the plots are?
Doesn't seem like they would, looking at merch sales alone (-40% or somesuch I read) any further decreases put a serious dent on Disney's action. You can't just replace your old fanbase and expect a new one with shoddy materials. Just ask the Stargate Universe people who dumped Atlantis for their new baby and killed the popular franchise.
Is anyone denying that? Disney is even expecting that.
After the TLJ backlash yes. They seem to think what some people here seem to ignore is happening. I would agree.
sheer volume will churn out something halfway decent sooner or later. You don't get your KOTORs without suffering through your Karen Travisses.
Except EA has an absolute monopoly on SW-games at the moment, so there is no "volume" nor any chance for a KOTOR. So no, there's no chance of that suddenly happening without a direct chance of action by Disney. Sorry to blow your bubble.
Well, if we need a good example of someone just putting TLJ Critism as Sexism look no further than Disney! Apparently JJ Abrahams says if we don't like this movie we are "Threatened by Woman". Yup, the guy that's supposed to give us faith in the series again and wanting us to see IX. Yet can't see how terrible all the characters of the new trilogy are. Doesn't promise improvement, just bashing fans. I feel confident already... How about for once Disney/LucasFilm admits blame instead of insulting us all. That would be a nice change of pace. And maybe creates some goodwill for the series you're dragging into it's grave.
So I watched the 18m torture of IHE again (since it was the same one I saw before, and even on second viewing still terrible) and the first 4 minutes is complaining about fans, then a whole minute on the movie. Literally this though; First I was somewhat conflicted, but positive leaning. Second I was positive. Third I loved it. Oh good, GREAT discussing off all the pro's there! Then straight back to fan-bashing again (and he goes deep in bashing). Then another 1m of "pro's" (all visual ones btw). And back to bashing. There's also a min or 2 where he lists his dislike (very similar to everyone else's like Canto Blight, it's message, porgs, Holdo). Which only takes so long since he needs to add a stab to all other Star Wars movies. Of course. And back to bashing! Odd. Just like I said and remembered. Yet got flamed by 2 people here for simply stating facts. Sorry. So we got 2m of actual arguments out of the 18m movie and 14m of bashing.
Did you guys watch the same damn YouTube movie? Did you guys think bashing are great arguments? What the hell was supposed to convince me there this was a good movie. What made you guys think he offered even a SINGLE argument for the movie?
Anyway, onto the next one... Comment Comeback. Haven't seen this one before.
Well, not much to say here. The actual arguments about the movie he waves off as "I told them in my review" and then there's a lot of discussion about the ranty stuff. Oh, and Luke's death was great apparently... dying from literally nothing. Totally comparable to death due to lightsaber or lightning, suuuuuuure. There's literally nothing here argumenting the movie besides that Luke part... and... ugh. Comparing Luke's death to Han's and Darth Vader's. Really? Nothing vs. being killed vs. sacrifice?
Aaaaanyway, onto 1Leonard's movie. I hope it contains actual arguments for more than 25% of it's duration this time.
Oh... it's not 10 arguments FOR the movie. It's 10 arguments WE have being stupid. Really... really? Wasn't this my entire fucking point? People can't actually give reasons, they just need to trash the other guy? Sure, I'm going to continue watching, but this isn't looking good. Let's go over them too why don't we? It's apparently what we're supposed to do.
10. Snoke isn't anybody. This is apparently a good thing. She's more excited that a villain who can't intimidate a fly is there rather than Snoke. Oookay? Why we liked them is since he was the only even remotely threatening thing in the Order. Now... they're a joke. Yay! Subversion! We all want potentless enemies, right? OH GOD... The Emperor argument again. Yeah, cause it was totally not the second movie there with a well-established opposition (The Empire) compare to The First Order who just came out of nowhere 3 movies later when 2 movies ago we totally beat the Empire and brought peace to the galaxy. But totally the same thing, don't explain why we suddenly have a new Empire after our heroes won. That's good storytelling right? How can people not see this difference? 9. Kylo sucks as villain. Pretty much the exact same argument as 10, but let's roll with it. As apprentice he works fine. As main baddy, you need someone who can realistically be intimidating or lead an army. Kylo fails at both. He's a joke villain. That's the problem. Good for a secondary villain, not the primary. She poses what movies have scary villains. Why? Classics. Terminator (2), Alien(s), The Matrix, Star Wars, LOTR. Odd, ain't that? Moving on... Oh wait, we got HUX. Who's now a clown. TFA Hux, maybe. TLJ Hux, joke. And the knights of Ren! Did YOU see them this movie? Good job making your argument revolving things Rian just couldn't bother adding. 8. No story left, pointless since it's like "a day after TFA where nothing happens". Actually, both are entirely true. TFA left tons of threads for the story, all killed now. The ending left little interest or motivation for IX. It could be anything. Not exactly great for the end of a trilogy. Oh and apparently Rey beating a 15-year trained Jedi first battle was a good thing now. Uhuh. Kylo having no motivations is good. The enemy all crying is good. WHAT AM I HEARING? 7. Rey is nobody. Mary Sue confirmed. That's good now too. Wouldn't want actual backstories or logical reasons for power in this trilogy now would we. All we want is a reason for her to NOT train like LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE. Or train. Note we got neither. 6. Luke the Mass-murderer; Apparently the only reason he tried it on Vader was since he couldn't defeat him in combat. He could Kylo so, OFF WITH HIS HEAD. *mind blows* What am I hearing. What IV, V and VI did you see that makes you think Luke is a sociopath? "Yeah, actually fighting wouldn't be what the good guy does. Killing in his sleep, yeah, that's good guy stuff" (paraphrasing but she literally said that). 5. Leia in space. Visually it looked bad, yes. Story-wise as well. Once again, you don't suddenly gain Force Powers. You train. Rey doesn't, that was a major complaint in TFA. Why would anyone think it would go over better in much higher quantities in TLJ? TRAINING. You need to Train to be a Jedi. Anakin, Luke and Kylo all trained for YEARS. Rey and Leia not a day. You see why that's an issue? 4. Everything is Holdo's fault. Yeah, it is. Why didn't she told the plan. Being a terrible leader. Wouldn't be AS bad if the movie also acknowledged her being a terrible leader. Yet, it does all in it's power to portray her right while she's not. There's the fault people put at it. Also "guy she just met"... with the Resistance being apparently like 100 people and she being a general... how is that possible? It's not. Only with bad storytelling. Also no, people didn't die when Poe "found out the plan" since he didn't. People died since he DIDN'T know the plan. Once he knew the plan he was like "that's a good plan", and that was it. 3. Ryan sets up his trilogy with broom boy. Sorry you missed the memo, but yeah... he totally did. Welcome to now knowing. 2. The B-plot was pointless since it didn't work. You forgot boring, preachy, had horrible characters, and contributed nothing to the end-result. Notice how Cloud City failed but nobody has an issue with that. Since it did "failure" right. Not just failure for the sake of failure. And you say "they learn from this failure". Since they don't, you kinda contradict your own reasoning for it having a reason to exist. If it paid off, it wouldn't be pointless now would it. And there would be less complains. But it's not, hence concerns. Also 3/4th the failures list every movies have. Since you added "the bad guys plan got thwarted = failure" in there. Such a never seen before concept. Not to mention you literally bring up your 4th point here. You can't complain about this whole thing screwing up Holdo yet ignore the whole thing didn't happen if Holdo just said the darn plan. 1. "The film challenges you"... WHAT? What does that even MEAN? Oh, it means "subversions". Yeah, those were bad. A subversion can work (KOTOR), but adding 20 kinda delutes their purpose. Subverting a subvertion (Leia dies! Oh she doesn't!) even more so. All the end result leads to is you just get completely uninterested in the content since literally everything gets retconned, sometimes even minutes later anyway. Where's the tension then? If you can't add in decent tension, don't expect me to keep attention. Which they probably hoped for anyway with the many plotholes added in there you're supposed to not register.
But thanks guys. When I said the people who apparently are Pro-TLJ on YouTube cannot for the life of them actually defend the movie with the movie, just by attacking those who didn't like it and their arguments... you sought out 3 examples proving exactly that. I was kinda expecting this, because as I said that's all I see on YouTube, but you were fairly insistant you could find something different for me. That didn't happen though.
And for some lighthearted fun, 2 songs. First is Anti-TLJ so beware of that if you dislike that. The other one is good for everyone!
I've got a nice 5-hour set of vids in the other topic to show it's not "petty details"
As for IHE pretty sure his entire video simply curtails of attacking people disliking the movie and being super critical of fans of Star Wars... basically the entire point I was making of find when searching for pro-TLJ vids on YouTube. I'll check the other one out when I got the time though. Not that I've got that much faith seeing how you also simply dismiss us all, and then apparently we are the toxic ones.
. I'm honestly glad that it made certain "fans" so mad that they quit watching new Star Wars movies because it means that we have to suffer through less bullshit when trying to talk about future installments.
Got to be one of the most BS things I read.
Which reminds me, Hassat, when is the next meeting of the Racist Sexist Whiny Fanboy Star Wars Bot Society? I'm not sure I'll make it to this next one.
I've programmed it into your agenda. To be double sure you find it it's Execute(Racism.exe) under If Female THEN Whine.
Lol what. I hate it when someone seems to share my opinion ("liked the movie") but then they do it for some dumbass reasons like that.
Apparently that's the media's narrative. Racists. Bots. People who can't watch movies. Not enough nostalgia (but TFA did just fine in China, even Rogue One did better but let's not talk about that). Too much nostalgia. Fanboys. Anti-fanboys. As stated I've yet to see a vid on YouTube actually putting forth points of content like you guys, so I'm simply interested in any 1Leonard *was* able to find. But sadly, that seems to lead nowhere :/
I really don't think we need to lock this, after all, it'll be something to discuss for many people for a while, why take that away. I always hate it on other forums if 2 people go off-topic and the moderators lock it while interesting discussions are going on and the topic is still relevant. I left in the posts where things where still civil, got rid of the rest.
How are they going to hold back the excessive elements though? I'm not sure the world is ready for an NC-17 Star Wars yet.
Probably would have had if they didn't reshoot Rogue One :/
And I don't really have a strong opinion. It sounds good, but the last Disney wave leaves me with Star Wars fatigue, making me rather apathetic towards any new Star Wars movies. I rather look forward to EA loosing the license and maybe we can actual get some good games again for a change.
It looks alright...writing this movie off completely before even watching it just because you didn't like TLJ just seems silly to me (and I didn't even rate TLJ that high), anyway...
I was already planning to not go to the cinema for it to boycot Disney, but seeing it's bad makes it all the easier. I'm not writing the movie off till I see it (long long time from now), but as far as the trailer go, the projection is it's terrible. And I wont spend my cash on it. Not going to fall for that one again.
Looks terrible. Only thing the teaser had going for it was that Star Destroyer shot. Then they made it infinitely worse in the actual trailer by showing "Han Solo" and making him talk and act. Just... no, no.
I am not going to say it'll be worse than TLJ, but so far the trailer is worse than TLJ's and we know how good that movie was. I don't feel any Star Wars, Han Solo vibe her. Just... another Kathleen Kennedy screwup in the making vibe.