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Member Since 03 Apr 2016
Offline Last Active Aug 01 2017 09:04 PM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Question/Advice about Skill Modding (and other stuff)

21 July 2017 - 06:15 PM

That's good to hear. But just to make sure: DON'T place files in .rim files. Use .mod files instead so that the vanilla files are not replaced.

Thank you, that is what I did. I found a tutorial on these forums about how to edit the script with the footlocker. It was actually in response to someone who wanted to add something depending on class, which isn't what I needed. But I figured out to do what I needed to do. I changed the script like so:



      string stringGLOB_15 = "g_i_credits012";

// Prototypes
object sub5();
void sub4();
void sub3(object objectParam1, int intParam2, int intParam3);
int sub2(object objectParam1, int intParam2);
int sub1();
object sub5() {
return GetObjectByTag(stringGLOB_1, 0);
void sub4() {
object object1 = GetObjectByTag(stringGLOB_13, 0);
       CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_15, object1, 3000);
int int1 = GetClassByPosition(1, GetFirstPC());
if ((int1 == 2)) {
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_10, object1, 1);
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_11, object1, 1);
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_12, object1, 1);
else {
if ((int1 == 1)) {
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_7, object1, 1);
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_8, object1, 1);
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_9, object1, 1);
else {
if ((int1 == 0)) {
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_4, object1, 1);
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_5, object1, 1);
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_6, object1, 1);
if (GetHasSkill(2, GetFirstPC())) {
CreateItemOnObject(stringGLOB_14, object1, 1);

I then compiled it as k_pend_area_01.ncs and put it in the Override folder.

In a way it was simpler to do than I imagined, but without the direction I would never have been able to figure it out.

In Topic: Question/Advice about Skill Modding (and other stuff)

21 July 2017 - 06:01 PM

JCarter, I sent you a PM. It's a link to a pdf that outlines my plans for this, and which parts I've done already. :)

I appreciate the feedback.

In Topic: Question/Advice about Skill Modding (and other stuff)

21 July 2017 - 05:20 AM

"Yeah, I get that, but - if you want any sort of distinction at all (a name, a feat for just that class, etc) then they will have to be different classes, in terms of proramming. Even if you make them fundamentally the same. Then you've used up all the classes again.


And by playing the same I mean you have up to four Jedi in the party, and currently they all have different hit dice, saving throws, feats, amount of Force points and powers, etc. And the player has the option to vary all this. With a single class you'd be losing all of that.


Finally, the tabletop version has a nifty list of things in the talent trees that tells you what each type should go for, but we can't have that here. So I'd suggest some sort of administrative work on that just to make it clearer, because I don't think it would be very clear to someone who wasn't intimately familiar with them already."


So - I don't want any sort of distinction at all. I don't want a feat for just that class. That class doesn't exist in this scenario. There's just the Jedi class. And yes, with a single class, Bastila, Juhani and Jolee would all be the same class. They would not, however, play the same. Because they would start with different abilities and different skills and different feats and different powers - simply because, they would be programmed to have started with different ones. Just like Canderous and Carth.

"Finally, the tabletop version has a nifty list of things in the talent trees that tells you what each type should go for, but we can't have that here. So I'd suggest some sort of administrative work on that just to make it clearer, because I don't think it would be very clear to someone who wasn't intimately familiar with them already."

I don't think the different "talents" even need to separated very much, I don't think it needs to be made super clear what each type should go for. I don't even think "should" is the word. I think it's no more complicated than updating the descriptions to point out which Feats and Powers are best suited to a Jedi following the path of a Consular who focuses on studying the force and diplomacy, versus a Guardian who focuses on lightsaber prowess. The whole "Consular", "Guardian" "Sentinel" distinction becomes not very important, and statistically nonexistent. It's just a theme.

It's totally okay to mix and match them, it would just be a fun flavor thing in the description, no more significant than pointing out the Echani's part in making energy shields.

"Having 7 class skills seems like a bit much to me, but when I play the second game I end up with everything as a class skill, so I also wouldn't complain about that. One thing you should keep in mind is that - I believe - you retain all your class skills from non-Jedi levels when you multiclass to Jedi."

That's a good point. It should be much more focused.

"Assuming you only want to edit their starting attributes, yeah. If you wanted it to level up you'd have to do it via script, and then you'd run into that problem.


On that subject, I would definitely suggest editing their stats anyway because they are not consistent with the game's rules."

Yeah it would just be their starting attributes.

"Sounds like it would work, although it feels a bit weird to me to have classes affect attributes, given that's usually a racial thing."

True. A shaky justification would be the lack of species choice in the game for the player character. But I hear you. 

I'll tell you this, when I first played KOTOR, on my old Xbox years ago (which I bought to play KOTOR on), the first thing I noticed when I went to create a character is that I had to be a Human. I was mystified. "They made a Star Wars RPG and I can't be a Wookiee?!" 

Players want to be Wookiees, and Twi'leks and Mon Calamari and Rodians. I know because-of-the-plot blah blah blah and romance blah-blah-blah, (and more importantly) a lot of extra work blah blah, but it's what players want and if I was really going to make a wish list that defied reality, that would be on there. "Play as Wookiees, Droids and Twi'leks!" the box proclaimed. But they were talking about your companions. 

Sometimes I get the itch to make a retro game where resources aren't so demanding, sprite-based graphics, and put out the KOTOR SAGA Edition I've always wanted, tactical combat, the works. 

But I digress.

So, yeah, I think it's a good idea from a gameplay stand point, the ability differences. But it's not in line with the tabletop game. Pros and cons. :)


In Topic: Question/Advice about Skill Modding (and other stuff)

20 July 2017 - 09:01 PM

There was a mod that did it with this very method ages ago, and it worked. The only thing you'll have to look out for is that some party members already use these slots.

You were talking about the suggestion of the unused inventory slots for class-based attributes. This is very encouraging. Because - I don't think I DO have to look for some party members using those slots. For the party members, you can just edit their starting attributes directly, and account for the increases/decreases in your calculations.

In Topic: Question/Advice about Skill Modding (and other stuff)

20 July 2017 - 08:50 PM

Well, rule systems get revised for reasons (not just to sell more rulebooks) so I'd still be interested in more Saga-like changes. There are some parts of Saga I prefer, and some I don't, but either way I do think the game in general could use an overall. If someone else is going to do it, then I look forward to it.



I was just talking to someone else about this today. Personally, I don't really like the idea that feat gain is the major difference in classes. It's a little unbalanced the way soldiers get lots and lots of feats to choose from, while the other classes don't get to chose as many, but get some automatically, and in general those are superior than any the soldier can choose. I don't think evening it out would necessarily work, as you say, but at the same time it irks me that such a vague thing is the major difference. It only works if there are a lot of good feats, and by the end of the game most of the ones you have left to choose from are garbage. I recall the last time I played, when I was leveling up Carth and Canderous the last few times, there wasn't anything left that would really benefit them, and I just gave them tiers of implants or something.


I don't know if there's a solution to this... the more customization you offer, the less distinct the class choice becomes, that's a universal rule. But it's certainly a weak point here.



I don't recall ever seeing any way to change it, so I assume it's limited as the attributes are. You can change the base amount of points each class gets per level, however.

On the subject of skills, though, I did some thinking and a bit of digging and I don't believe there is anything forcing you to keep computer use and repair. As far as I can recall, every game mechanic involving them is a scripted skill check that could be changed to something else. Using repair kits, repairing droids, slicing computers, all that is through scripts we can edit. The only possible issue I can imagine is that it would display the wrong values on computer terminals, and maybe there's even a way to get around that.


The same goes for treat injury and persuade, but I doubt you want to get rid of those. Demolitions and security have some function that is hard coded, I believe, and would present more problems. I'm not sure about stealth or awareness - these might be handled through AI scripts I've simply never researched thoroughly.


Depending on how the code is, and this makes me curious because I see the constants in skills.2da, it may be possible to rearrange even these functions.



I'd be fine with reducing the classes that way, only thing I would worry about is that it would make them play too similarly but I would say they already do that for the most part anyway.


There are a couple problems with your idea, though. First, there's no way to force the player to choose one of three feats that way, unless you do make them different classes. You could make each class statistically the same for the most part, but they'd still be taking up space and you couldn't add more Jedi classes.


Second, with the game's level up system, the more agency you want the player to have, in general the dumber you have to make the system. You can't say, for example, a Jedi Guardian will get this feat at this level, unless the player already picked this, in which case they get the next tier of it, or a different feat, or whatever, the way the tabeltop rules can let you. You can either say a Jedi Guardian gets this feat at this level, or they don't, and they can choose it at this level, or they can't. So there's no way to work in recommendations apart from the descriptions like you described. I don't think a footnote at the end would be enough, especially if every class can pick anything anyway. I would suggest grouping them all together, changing the icons as well to make it clearer, something along those lines.


All this is why, I think, they dumbed it down to the level they did. Although they did have a far more complicated system in Neverwinter Nights, unfortunately none of it works here.

I think this is what had me thinking about Attribute Bonuses tied to Classes, although this sounds like there's not an elegant way to do it. But it would make them distinct.

You could easily specify the attribute bonus difference in the text at the character creation screen.

What do you think? If Scouts, Scoundrels and Soldiers got Feats at the same rate, and the same number of Skill points (based on Intelligence), but had statistical differences, and retained their class-feats?


Scoundrel: +1 Dex, +1 Cha, -1 Wis. The scoundrel is an agile charmer, but prone to brash decisions.
Scout: +1 Con, +1 Int, -1 Cha. The scout is a knowledgeable survivor, but often aloof.
Soldier: +1 Str, +1 Wis, -1 Int. The soldier is a deadly tactician, but neglects intellectual pursuits.

And if we're still doing the Jedi classes:

Jedi Consular: +1 Wis, +1 Cha, -1 Str. The Consular pursues knowledge of the Force and is less adept with lightsabers.
Jedi Guardian: +1 Wis, +1 Str, -1 Wis. The Guardian focuses on lightsaber training and is less adept with the Force.
Jedi Sentinel: +1 Wis, +1 Dex, -1 Cha. The Sentinel relentlessly guards against the Dark Side and is less concerned with diplomacy.

Or if we're doing just 1 Jedi class:

Jedi: +1 Wis. The Jedi is attuned to the Force, and is part of a larger world.

[^In this version, the Jedi class doesn't have any penalties, unlike the non-Jedi classes. But this is balanced because the non-Jedi classes have 2 attribute bonuses and the Jedi only gets 1. Of course, multi-classing becomes advantageous, as the PC will end up with 3 class-based attribute bonuses. Seeing as the player character is the only one who gets to do this, this seems okay).

There could be a datapad in the player character's inventory (the first footlocker) that explains the stat differences. Basically like a crew manifest type thing of the Endar Spire and what type of crew they recruit. And then the training computer on Dantooine could still be the method that fills the character in on Jedi differences (if using different Jedi classes).

But the rate of progression for Feats and Skills (and Powers for the Jedi) would be the same.