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Impressions of M4-78 EP (Version 1.2 only)


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#61 Lawkmt3

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:32 PM

As I mentioned before, they were just ideas off the top of my head. They may not be something everyone is interested. That said, you do know why Sion destroyed Peragus, and why Nhilius wants Onderon! Dantooine, Telos, and Korriban all tie into K1, and M4-78 just waves out there like a kite without a string to tether it to K1 or TSL.

 

Is there really no way to save Lonna so she's on Dantooine?



#62 Kexikus

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:40 PM


Is there really no way to save Lonna so she's on Dantooine?

 

No, there's no way to do that in M4-78EP. I assume that's due to the fact that there are no voice lines for her on Dantooine, but one of the developers would have to confirm that.


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#63 Lawkmt3

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:57 PM

Yuck! Oh okay.



#64 Hassat Hunter

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 09:41 PM

You seem to have missed mentioning NS. The biggest planet. And Dxun.

Also Nihilus and Onderon make little sense for "doesnt care for people or planets, sees a much bigger picture" Nihilus who only comes to Telos for the Jedi Academy.
But due tell me how it actually makes sense for him to want Onderon.

#65 Lawkmt3

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 10:18 PM

Nar Shaada and Dxun also tie into the Mandalorian wars, a theme Central to the Exile. M4-78 has nothing to do with either the Jedi Civil War, the Republic, nor the Exile's history. A link to any one of these plot points would make the mod better! 

 

The Bloodline of Freedon Naad, might make Nihilus stable, or give him a host! There are very good reasons for Nhilius wanting that planet.



#66 Hassat Hunter

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 10:24 PM

The plotline doesn't allow a link with any of those.
(Though for republic theres the whole droid army you provide them with)

#67 zbyl2

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 10:47 PM

Hassat, you don't seem to understand what he's getting at here. You seem to be thinking about how the planets are connected but you're completely ignoring game's themes.

 

To give a more obvious example, think about how often the game talks about the past, be it your own, your companions or the Jedi and galaxy in general. Dxun (and by extension Onderon) fits right into it, because that's where you fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Korriban plays with that theme in the tomb. Goto is all about fixing the galaxy after the Jedi Civil War, and Nar Shaddaa as well as the whole Jedi bounty plot is basically an extension of his character. Dantooine is obvious.

 

M4-78's got nothing.

 

There's a lot of things we can argue about when it comes to M4-78, but it is definitely much more stand alone than any other planet in the game.



#68 JCarter426

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 11:16 PM

You seem to have missed mentioning NS. The biggest planet. And Dxun.

Also Nihilus and Onderon make little sense for "doesnt care for people or planets, sees a much bigger picture" Nihilus who only comes to Telos for the Jedi Academy.
But due tell me how it actually makes sense for him to want Onderon.

Well, there is one thing... the game does bring it up but never really addresses the connection. Talia, Vaklu, and the whole royal line are descendants of Freedon Nadd. And Freedon Nadd died centuries ago. If the usual laws of genetics are at play here then a significant portion of Onderon's population could trace their ancestry back to a Sith Lord. That would be enough to draw a hungry Nihilus' attention.

 

But as for M4-78, I agree with Zbyl. It's isolated and I really don't think there's any helping it. Obsidian was pretty thorough in their cutting, this time. Nothing else in the game connects to it because they wanted it gone. So I don't think that's a very fair criticism of the mod. It's asking M4-78 to address things it could not possibly address, because all that content was removed or moved elsewhere. In its very conception, M4-78 had to be a new, standalone thing.



#69 Hassat Hunter

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 11:20 PM

Its kinda hard to talk about the past on a planet with no past though.

M4-78 has no role to the galaxy till the Sith found it and made it their mini-Star Forge. All OE plot that too.

#70 Lawkmt3

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 11:58 PM

I didn't mean to start a controversy. The thread does encourage people to share their impressions. I love the MOD, I think the people who made it are amazing, I just wish the story tied into the mythos of KOTOR better. Onderon, Nar Shaada, Dxun tie incredibly well to the first game, and help form the story in TSL. To have this incredible planet, with so much passion and work poured into it, without solid ground in the mythos is slightly disappointing.



#71 JCarter426

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:02 AM

Ah, don't worry about it. I get what you're saying. And I agree - it is disconnected from the rest of the game. But... well, what would you do instead?
 
The way I see it, either you'd have to change stuff in other parts of the game, or rewrite M4-78 to have an entirely different origin from the one presented in what little was left in the game files. You could argue maybe one of those things should have been done instead, but in any case, both were beyond the scope of this mod in particular. Even though it was not a restoration in practice, because there wasn't much left to restore, it was meant to be a restoration in spirit - so that meant not directly contradicting anything that was left over, or messing about with other parts of the game (apart from Vash's death on Korriban, obviously). And for better or worse, what was left implied it was a relatively insignificant planet, disconnected from the rest of the galaxy. So that's what we got.

 

But regarding your other point, about not having a big choice to make... well, we started reminiscing about some ideas we had that didn't make it in, and it led to this topic here.



#72 Sith Holocron

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:10 AM

I think the scope of the mod should clearly be indicated in the read-me, just so we don't have to have these sorts of discussions.


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#73 adogface

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 07:29 AM

An organic who just murdered all the Sith on the planet, reprogrammed many droids and did many acts of sabotage in the colony. It's not very logical to appoint the person killing all your colonists the new colonist. The player or Republic never harmed M4-78 in a direct way like Vash and Kaah did.

I don't think that what Vash and Kaah did can be called "harm", especially comparing it to the fact that Sith actually turned M4-78 off, and in the end Vash's arrival led to M4-78 being rebooted. A machine megabrain of M4-78's scale should realize this fact and act accordingly, which it does not. He should also understand that killing Vash and Kaah would not help his relationship with player character and his team, who are M4-78's last potential colonists.

I don't say that M4-78 should feel friendly to Vash and Kaah but for droids it's all about pragmatism and logic, really. And I'm yet to see any, especially in this particular occasion.



#74 Hassat Hunter

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:27 AM

M4-78 appointed the Sith as colonists, Vash/Kaah then killed them with radiation and had a lot of droids killed off in Environmental. Not sure how that can NOT be called "harm".

He opted the Sith for the good of the colony, and they went and ruined it all. That's... pretty much it. I doubt droids have the human emotion of vanity that turning them off for the greater good is offending them, definitely a main Archon would not.






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